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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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What should we do if we see a chemtrail???? I'm worried!!!!!!!!!
Should I leave Korea???????
Should I make a placard and stand in front of city hall with a gasmask????
Should I just stay indoors?????
Are there any SAFE countries I can move to ??????
Also, I think I just saw one in my living room. are they using miniplanes now????
PS I detest multiple punctuation marks. |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Way to change the topic doood. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: |
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roses are red
Krishna is blue...
If you're killin n Eden cows
U problee B n atheist/ bad Christian, Muslim or Jew... |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Way to be controversial doood. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| way to weigh the whey, recursive person ... |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Related article from Salon.com
See my post later in the thread for an explanation of its relevance.
Last edited by Bramble on Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lucas_p
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Call me weak, but I haven't found many vegans (some vegetarians even) who actually love what they eat...at least not as much as what we meat-eaters eat.
Heck, I don't even eat that much meat anymore, I usually do chicken or fish, but some of the vegetarians...no, actually most that I know are big jerks about sticky their noses upward anytime anyone even mentions "spider pig" and "cash cow".
We would need to produce an awful lot of edible plants to feed a completely meat-less or animal-less (diet-wise) society, maybe the answer is just not having babies? Maybe that makes more sense? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: |
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You love eating harmless animals that pitiably scream when they're being slaughtered? They have the same gut feelings for survival that we have...
I see it as a "right to life" issue, and only support killing animals when there's a dire necessity to ... |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| lucas_p wrote: |
| Call me weak, but I haven't found many vegans (some vegetarians even) who actually love what they eat... |
You should try getting out more, then. And ... what Rteacher said. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| You love eating harmless animals that pitiably scream when they're being slaughtered? |
I figure they were asking for it when they decided to be delicious. Did I tell them to taste so good? Gimme a break here ...
Just kidding. Thing is, the present situation of livestock animals represents large numbers of species that simply will no longer exist without human domestication practices. To suddenly stop the forms of agriculture that have been present for tyhousands of years would result in nothing less than slow genocide fo these species ... yet, if you look carefully at what a lot of vegans publicly espouse, this is exactly the aim they wish for.
But hey, they can blame someone else for that, right?
Fact is, I've talked to quite a few radical vegetarians and whenever the idea of biodiversity and extinctions of entire species come up in a discussion, it turns out to be of no concern to them.
Hence, I will consider that the clearest and most accurate statement would be :
YOU CANNOT CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PLANET IF YOUR MAIN CONCERN IS YOUR OWN WARM FEELINGS OF BEING "NICE" TO ANIMALS IN THE ABSTRACT AND HAVE MORE REGARD FOR YOUR OWN SENSE OF MORAL WELL-BEING THAN THE STATE OF REALITY AS IT EXISTS.
Humans are animals. Animals sometimes eat animals. They don't feel bad about it later. Big deal. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| You love eating harmless animals that pitiably scream when they're being slaughtered? |
I figure they were asking for it when they decided to be delicious. Did I tell them to taste so good? Gimme a break here ...
Just kidding. Thing is, the present situation of livestock animals represents large numbers of species that simply will no longer exist without human domestication practices. To suddenly stop the forms of agriculture that have been present for tyhousands of years would result in nothing less than slow genocide fo these species ... yet, if you look carefully at what a lot of vegans publicly espouse, this is exactly the aim they wish for.
But hey, they can blame someone else for that, right?
Fact is, I've talked to quite a few radical vegetarians and whenever the idea of biodiversity and extinctions of entire species come up in a discussion, it turns out to be of no concern to them.
Hence, I will consider that the clearest and most accurate statement would be :
YOU CANNOT CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PLANET IF YOUR MAIN CONCERN IS YOUR OWN WARM FEELINGS OF BEING "NICE" TO ANIMALS IN THE ABSTRACT AND HAVE MORE REGARD FOR YOUR OWN SENSE OF MORAL WELL-BEING THAN THE STATE OF REALITY AS IT EXISTS.
Humans are animals. Animals sometimes eat animals. They don't feel bad about it later. Big deal. |
I think if you look at the big picture, you'll find the intensive modern farming of livestock is more likely to contribute to the extinction of species. While ending meateating might result in the decline of some breeds of pig or cow, thousands of other species would be saved from extinction. Our practices are currently devasting whole swathes of wilderness all over the world. Meateating requires far more use of land than vegetariansim, and so everyday valuble ecosystems are cleared away to make way for new land to feed are insatiable desire for meat. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Meateating requires far more use of land than vegetariansim, and so everyday valuble ecosystems are cleared away to make way for new land to feed are insatiable desire for meat. |
Here's from the article Bramble provided, quite a good one, and I recommend the time spent on it.
Still, chickens are such efficient producers of protein that a study in the science journal Earth Interactions finds that Americans who eat poultry, dairy and eggs, but not red meat, are responsible for fewer greenhouse gases than those who consume a vegetarian diet that includes dairy and eggs. "Astonishingly enough," says study coauthor Gidon Eshel, a Bard College geophysicist, "the poultry diet is actually better than lacto-ovo vegetarian." In other words, a roast chicken dinner is better for the planet than a cheese pizza.[italics mine] |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Meateating requires far more use of land than vegetariansim, and so everyday valuble ecosystems are cleared away to make way for new land to feed are insatiable desire for meat. |
Here's from the article Bramble provided, quite a good one, and I recommend the time spent on it.
Still, chickens are such efficient producers of protein that a study in the science journal Earth Interactions finds that Americans who eat poultry, dairy and eggs, but not red meat, are responsible for fewer greenhouse gases than those who consume a vegetarian diet that includes dairy and eggs. "Astonishingly enough," says study coauthor Gidon Eshel, a Bard College geophysicist, "the poultry diet is actually better than lacto-ovo vegetarian." In other words, a roast chicken dinner is better for the planet than a cheese pizza.[italics mine] |
You seem to have missed the point completely. |
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quercus
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: PETA |
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Big_Bird said:
"Anyone who is really serious about the environment would seriously consider giving up meat. It is one of the greatest contributions you can personally make in that regard. Do some research, Bobster, and you will find that modern farming puts an enormous environmental strain on the planet."
not quite. animals are part of the environment, there is no reason they can't sustainable be part of your diet. why don't you change your comment to "seriously considering giving up any food produced using conventional agriculture, meat or plant."
modern farming certainly does put an enormous envionmental strain on the planet, whether you are farming meat or plants. meat animals emit methane, tractors emit carbon dioxide and other pollution and then it is all wrapped and transported across the earth. its ridiculous.
in my opinion the first requirement would be a more local diet. then you can work on a diet from a farming system more closely modelled on nature and natural cycles, meat and plants complementing each other.
an ecologically and socially sustainable diet would not be possible without animals and their manure by the way, and you can (in my opinion) ethically use them as food: raise them with care and allow them to live as they have naturally evolved (cows eat grass- not corn) so they are healthy (for you too!) and then eat them after they die naturally when you slaughter them (as natural as a lion killing a gazelle isn't it?) in a humane way. you can do it correctly.
read about how here:
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/0143038583/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196738051&sr=8-1
or figure out how you can really contribute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
http://www.urbanpermacultureguild.org/
if you really want to get involved, read rudolf steiner's (the waldorf school guy) lectures called Agriculture about biodynamic agriculture. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The only PETA I like: People Eating Tasty Animals |
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