Korean Job Discussion Forums

bassexpander · Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

Very interesting.

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&fg=rss&vid=dc439da1-e5e2-4998-b010-d79e4200e8cc&from=imbot_men3549

jinju · Joined: 22 Jan 2006

I didnt watch it but I dont buy it.

Julius · Joined: 27 Jul 2006

That has been known for a long time. Yes! animals have feelings!

What more do you want those elephants to do, jinju? lay wreaths of flowers over the bones and say prayers for the departed? Rolling Eyes

You seem to have some sort of dislike of animals. Have you never had pets or anything?

igotthisguitar · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:03 am Post subject:

khyber · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction

Read the book 'When Elephants Cry".

A fantastic read that investigates whether animals have feelings and/or the extreme lengths that animals go to in protecting themselves/their young.

Demophobe · Joined: 17 May 2004

Many people believe that animals aren't capable of the higher emotions, but I don't think this is correct. They are incapable of interpreting them (self-awareness), but that doesn't mean they don't feel them.

jinju · Joined: 22 Jan 2006

still NOT buying it. Sell your swampland somewhere else!!!

tomato · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:

I forgot where I read this, but I read somewhere that elephants bury their dead in the evening.
They hold ceremonies while facing the sun setting in the west, thereby proving that humans are not the only animals capable of symbolism.

jinju · Joined: 22 Jan 2006

I read it too...it was in a story book. Seriously, guys, these are ANIMALS! Not thinking beings. Let me tell yoi about Santa Claus..once, there was a jolly old fat man who magically gave presents to kids all over the world. In a single night he would swoop down from the sky in his magical sleigh, pulled by fantastic flying reindeer lead by Rudolph, who had a red nose.....

kermo · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject:

The video seems to be gone.

There's a similar one here though. Not sure if it's the same. Interesting footage but horrible background music.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=whBv3q6Lfk0

To decide whether animals have "higher" emotions, you have to decide what emotions actually consist of.

I believe that the "two-factor theory of emotion" is the best explanation we currently have. It goes like this:

Emotions consist of both physiological arousal, and a recognition of the particular situation that brought about that arousal.

For instance, a mailman walks into a yard and seeing a snarling Doberman. His muscles tense up and his heart races. If this had happened to him while sitting on a bus without any obvious stimulus, he'd assume he was ill or just shrug it off. However, the presence of the dog makes it obvious-- he'll report that he felt fear because he interpreted his physical arousal in light of the menacing dog.

To me, this makes more sense both in terms of personal experience and in comparison to the previous theories (the Cannon-Bard theory and the James-Lange theory from earlier in the 20th C.)

I think that's why grief is such a difficult emotion to understand. The physical sensations are so varied that we don't always recognize them, and literally don't understand what we're feeling. For instance, when two of my friends were killed in a car wreck, I didn't feel anything physical at all, so I tried to process it intellectually. After a few days, when my body started to feel numb, and then terribly tense, I was relieved to be able to experience something recognisably sad and angry.

To get back to the main topic, there's no doubt that elephants have a physical, demonstrable reaction to the death of a comrade, but whether they understand those symptoms would be the key to deciding whether they are experience emotions.

VanIslander · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject:

kermo · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

igotthisguitar · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:

Alyallen · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject:

sojourner1 · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject:

Elephants don't forget.

Of course animals are emotional and bond to their young and their keepers.

Look at the dogs and cats. They do bond with people and grieve when their owner is away or has died.

Gorilla families come close together to grieve over a family death.

Many parrots will pluck all their feathers out when the original owner either dies or gives the bird up.

Animals do think and feel and know things just as humans do, but simply aren't as mentally advanced as we are. The only real difference is that we are specially equipped to think and walk on 2 legs.