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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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yes, everyone is lying. the true conspiracy that day was by the 118 first-responders, by-standers, soccer moms, and reporters. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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loose_ends wrote: |
is everyone lying????
since when is witness testimoney not evidence?
the videos are debatable when left to our own interpretation.
bomb or crash/explosion or air/melting steel or melting aluminum
why not rely on a person who was ACTUALLY there, expereiencing it without prior bias?
you aren't interested in evidence. you have made that clear. |
Wow, you really are a nutter. Show me a video with audible explosions going off on the upper floors before the collapse. You pick the video. Without any explosions there is no controlled demolition. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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blaseblasphemener wrote: |
yes, everyone is lying. the true conspiracy that day was by the 118 first-responders, by-standers, soccer moms, and reporters. |
Are all of the videos lying? Where are the audible explosions. Don't you find that the least bit curious? |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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huffdaddy wrote: |
Who cares what the firemen said. We have videos of the collapse. |
You'll take a video over the word of men actually on the scene??? |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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bacasper wrote: |
huffdaddy wrote: |
Who cares what the firemen said. We have videos of the collapse. |
You'll take a video over the word of men actually on the scene??? |
"Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear"
ajeokles |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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huffdaddy wrote: |
blaseblasphemener wrote: |
yes, everyone is lying. the true conspiracy that day was by the 118 first-responders, by-standers, soccer moms, and reporters. |
Are all of the videos lying? Where are the audible explosions. Don't you find that the least bit curious? |
you want to hear audible explosions? fine. i'll post them around 4ish after work.
Here is where your fallacy lies.
I can show videos that have images that look like explosions and sound like explosions in the opinions of many people. I can also give you oral histories of first responders that heard and saw explosions, in their opinion.
The existence of the above opinions is FACT. There is video and witness testimony that supports, not proves that exposives coulod have been there. REMEMBER, this is support for a hypothesis. IT ISN'T total proof for CDT. It is just a part of a larger whole.
You say that those events in the video are other things and the multiple witnesses are mistaken.
THAT IS OPINION. your opinion does not prove the CDT wrong. this why i truly know you have no idea what the scientific process is beyong just saying what you heard in a first year university lecture. i would bet money you don't have a science degree. it shows, in your logical fallacies.
to say that your opinion that videos and witness testimony are wrong is enough to prove CDT wrong, is really actually quite sad.
anyway, i'll post it later for everyone to decide THEIR OPINION. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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cbclark4 wrote: |
bacasper wrote: |
huffdaddy wrote: |
Who cares what the firemen said. We have videos of the collapse. |
You'll take a video over the word of men actually on the scene??? |
"Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear"
ajeokles |
"Think for yourself, instead of relying on quotes from smart people"
-smart people |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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"Don't you find that the least bit curious?" - huff diddy
here is something that is curious.
Rudolph Giuliani's Warning
In an ABC News interview, Giuliani states that he was "told that the World Trade Center was gonna' collapse," and that it did collapse, referring to the 9:59 destruction of the South Towers, and implies that that the warning was not well in advance of the event.
I .. I went down to the scene and we set up a headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna' to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit, got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.
http://911research.com/wtc/attack/giuliani.html#ref1
so what? some one thought it was going to collapse and gave warning.
so who was close enough to know it would collapse....the firefighters trying to rescue people near the impact zones. right?
lets see what they have to say....
9:52 a.m.
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha."
"Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."
Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."
Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."
Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."
Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."
................
9:57 a.m.
"Division 3 ... lobby command, to the Fieldcom command post."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Operations Tower One to floor above Battalion Nine."
Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to command post."
Battalion Seven Operations Tower One: "Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."
Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up Orio."
Ladder 15 OV: "Fifteen OV to Fifteen."
Ladder 15: "Go ahead Fifteen OV, Battalion Seven Operations Tower One."
Ladder 15 OV: "Stuck in the elevator, in the elevator shaft, you're going to have to get a difference elevator. We're chopping through the wall to get out."
Battalion Seven Chief: "Radio lobby command with that Tower One."
9:58 a.m.
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."
(END OF TAPE)
so it seems the firefighters didn't even mention a warning. also, they mention 2 pocket fires able to be taken out with 2 lines. Certainly not steel bending fires.
9/11 Firefighters Told of Isolation Amid Disaster
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/09records.html
THREATS AND RESPONSES: ASSESSMENT; Contradicting Other Evidence, Giuliani Says Firefighters Heard Order to Evacuate
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E0DB103FF933A15756C0A9629C8B63
so the mayor got a warning. shouldn't that warning have come from the people at the scene...he firefighters? and even if it didn't, why weren't they warned too?
This curious situation is documented. It is reported in the mainstream.
This is a curious situation but it does not PROVE CDT. It supports the notion that people knew the buildings were coming down.
Buildings have never come down due to fire so it is hard to believe some one on the outside of the building predicted this without first discussing what the fire actually looked like on the inside with the people that were there.
However oral reports show that firefighters were not overly concerned with the fire.
So where did the warnings come from? Why were only certain people told?
THESE are curious questions, but then again, your opinion is quite curious as well. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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and another curious bit.
from the mainstream
ENGINEERS ARE BAFFLED OVER THE COLLAPSE OF 7 WTC
"STEEL MEMBERS HAVE BEEN PARTLY EVAPORATED"
New Yourk Times
http://www.geocities.com/streakingobject/07NYTimes7WTCwhy.html
"A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr. Barnett said."
can't wait for the NIST report for WTC7 to come out.....6 years after 9/11
Last edited by loose_ends on Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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loose_ends wrote: |
cbclark4 wrote: |
bacasper wrote: |
huffdaddy wrote: |
Who cares what the firemen said. We have videos of the collapse. |
You'll take a video over the word of men actually on the scene??? |
"Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear"
ajeokles |
"Think for yourself, instead of relying on quotes from smart people"
-smart people |
...as he goes on to quote from the various 911 conspiracy sites.
The chief virtue that language can have is clearness, and nothing detracts
from it so much as the use of unfamiliar words.
Hippocrates
Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to be
lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition.
Isaac Asimov |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
...as he goes on to quote from the various 911 conspiracy sites. |
I sourced one, and it merely quoted something Giuliani said in an interview. why lie?
don't worry though. i gave you a pass to flame me way back on page 1 because i feel for the geographically handicapped in Korea. what is the population of Masan again? |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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and another curious event.
Top U.S. Bin Laden Expert: Confession Video �Bogus"
Was Osama Bin Laden responsible for 9/11?
The Bush Administration says yes, citing a grainy, badly-edited videotape that surfaced in December, 2001.
Bin Laden had denied responsibility for 9/11, once even deploring the loss of civilian life in the attacks and calling them un-Islamic.)
Is the famous �confession video� genuine? Despite Bush�s insistence that the tape is authentic, America�s top academic Bin Laden expert has finally gone on the record, joining numerous other experts. �It�s bogus,� says Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University�s Religious Studies program. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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anything else you are curious about?
research 9/11 and one is left with nothing but curiousity in regards to the 'offical' conspiracy theory. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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loose_ends wrote: |
anything else you are curious about?
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Only when your head will eventually collapse in on itself |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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loose_ends wrote: |
and another curious event.
Top U.S. Bin Laden Expert: Confession Video �Bogus"
Was Osama Bin Laden responsible for 9/11?
The Bush Administration says yes, citing a grainy, badly-edited videotape that surfaced in December, 2001.
Bin Laden had denied responsibility for 9/11, once even deploring the loss of civilian life in the attacks and calling them un-Islamic.)
Is the famous �confession video� genuine? Despite Bush�s insistence that the tape is authentic, America�s top academic Bin Laden expert has finally gone on the record, joining numerous other experts. �It�s bogus,� says Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University�s Religious Studies program. |
Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University�s Religious Studies [/size]program.
The alleged bin Ladin confession tape is an obvious fake
Quote: |
Bin Laden in Jazeerah tape on the left. Who is this guy on the right pictured in the CIA released video pretending to be Bin Laden? Any fool with eyes can see they are not the same person.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/faked_video_inin.htm |
Our take...
The right-hand picture above is often used to discredit the tape, and in principle it does a good job. Do these two look like the same person? No. However, as usual, it's not quite as simple as that.
First up, the "fake bin Ladin" shot looks "enhanced" to us, as though someone has taken the original video, brightened it up, perhaps sharpened it too (which would explain the halo effect around the head, although to be fair that's also present on the other image). We�re not saying the features have been altered in any way, or that this was done with a specific intent to deceive, but it does suggest a need to look at the original footage.
To be fair, some sites do get closer to that. Take a look at this picture, for instance, from a page discussing the tape: it doesn�t have the same �processed� look, and we�d say bears a much stronger resemblance to the first bin Ladin photo.
http://www.september11news.com/OsamaEvidence.htm
Fuller-face pictures like this one are interesting, though.
The story...
The alleged bin Ladin confession tape is an obvious fake.
Bin Laden in Jazeerah tape on the left. Who is this guy on the right pictured in the CIA released video pretending to be Bin Laden? Any fool with eyes can see they are not the same person.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/faked_video_inin.htm
Our take...
The right-hand picture above is often used to discredit the tape, and in principle it does a good job. Do these two look like the same person? No. However, as usual, it's not quite as simple as that.
First up, the "fake bin Ladin" shot looks "enhanced" to us, as though someone has taken the original video, brightened it up, perhaps sharpened it too (which would explain the halo effect around the head, although to be fair that's also present on the other image). We�re not saying the features have been altered in any way, or that this was done with a specific intent to deceive, but it does suggest a need to look at the original footage.
To be fair, some sites do get closer to that. Take a look at this picture, for instance, from a page discussing the tape: it doesn�t have the same �processed� look, and we�d say bears a much stronger resemblance to the first bin Ladin photo.
We looked a little further, and found higher resolution shots that appear to be from the same tape.
http://www.september11news.com/OsamaEvidence.htm
Fuller-face pictures like this one are interesting, though.
http://www.september11news.com/OsamaEvidence.htm
Images like this offer a mid-point between those two top pictures. You can see how, if viewed from a particular angle and with the right lighting (and reduced in size, and poorly encoded), this could look like the supposed fat-faced "fake" image, but it could also be a match for the real bin Laden image, too.
The pictures are just one of the issues, though. Many sites point to other indications that the video bin Ladin may be a different person.
�The FBI say he�s left handed�, they point out, �and yet in the video he�s writing with his right hand�. Read out thoughts on this here.
WhatReallyHappened also point to the ring you can see the man in the image above wearing on his right hand. No other images of Bin Ladin show him wearing such a ring, they suggest, another sign that it�s a different person. Or is it? We think they�re wrong.
What you won�t see pointed out very often is that bin Ladin isn�t the only known person in the videos. Leading Al Qaeda figures Suleiman Abu Ghaith and Ayman al-Zawahiri are claimed to make make brief appearances, too. Presumably we�re supposed to believe they are also being impersonated?
Beyond the analyses, we think the idea of the tape being faked raises other questions, for which there are a distinct lack of answers.
Many of the same sites who tell us this tape is a fake, for instance, also point out that bin Ladin denied being involved with 9/11 soon after the attacks. If this is true then it suggests bin Ladin is a real, live person, out there somewhere, not doing the bidding of the US Government. In which case why has he, or some other al Qaeda spokesman, not pointed out that this tape is a fake?
Some people also point to articles suggesting the tape was translated inaccurately
Quote: |
The American translators who listened to the tapes and transcribed them apparently wrote a lot of things in that they wanted to hear but that cannot be heard on the tape no matter how many times you listen to it
http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/16801 |
Very interesting, if true, but hardly support for faking, at least not by the US Government. Because if they organised the filming, why wouldn�t they have the participants saying exactly what they wanted? Why the need to play around with translations later?
Overall, we can't say with 100% certainty that the tape is real, but equally, it isn't the obvious fake some would pretend. We're not alone in this view, either. Here's a conversation between Al Jazeera London bureau chief Yosri Fouda and TBS Publisher and Senior Editor S. Abdallah Schleifer.
Quote: |
SAS: ...there was the much earlier amateurishly filmed video tape that the American government says they found in Afghanistan... in which a militant Saudi sheikh, visiting with Bin Ladin leads Bin Ladin into an acknowledgement that it was Al-Qa'ida operatives known only to him and a few others, who staged the operation and Bin Ladin re-enacts his great joy when the operation succeeded well beyond his expectations. My intuition as a journalist told me when I watched the tape on CNN that it was authentic and that it was Bin Ladin but my intuition also told me that the Sheikh was an intelligence agent, probably for the Americans and the their taped conversation a sting operation. A few days later a respectable British newspaper confirmed it was a sting but they said it was set up by Saudi intelligence. And certainly the former head of Saudi intelligence has made it clear in no uncertain terms that 9/11 was an Al-Qa'ida operation. Now despite all of this and other documentation, so many Arabs were in a state of denial and many are still in a state of denial, insisting that Al-Qa'ida or any Arabs for that matter could not have had anything to do with this operation, that this was a Mossad or CIA operation.
YF: ...Until I got to meet Ramzi and Khalid there was a lot of doubt as to the possibility that that tape might have been fabricated. But I got it on videotape from one of the other people from Al-Qa'ida who were there at the apartment that the tape was legitimate. I asked him whether that tape was genuine and he said it was. And in the end when I went back I put that Saudi Sheikh's video tape with Bin Ladin on and listened to it for four or five times, and certain bits and pieces that Bin Ladin said on that tape fit in very nicely with what Ramzi and Khalid had said to me. You know like the first time that they knew of the zero hour.
SAS: I understand what you are saying and I've been convinced of that tape's authenticity since the beginning. And your experience just confirms it. |
http://www.tbsjournal.com/Archives/Fall02/Fouda.html
Quote: |
Has bin Ladin accepted responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? And does al Qaeda even exist?
bin Ladin was trained and funded by the CIA
Bush signed National Security order W199i to take FBI agents off the bin Ladin family trail
bin Ladin met with a CIA agent only weeks before 9/11
George Bush senior met with a bin Ladin brother on the morning of 9/11
bin Ladin denied responsibility for 9/11
And previously bin Ladin has clearly accepted responsibility for everything, why not this time?
The bin Ladin family were rushed out of the US after 9/11
The December 2001 bin Ladin �confession� video is an obvious fake
Some say al Qaeda doesn�t even exist
And that bin Ladin didn�t use the name al Qaeda until after 9/11
Richard Myers said on the record that �the goal has never been to get bin Ladin�, and George Bush says he doesn�t care, either |
http://www.911myths.com/html/bin_ladin.html |
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