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[deadman]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

David Icke

[deadman]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[quote="deadman"]

[deadman]

[mehmeh]

This whole thread epitomizes everything that is wrong in American politics. Why is someone who is not "anti" something automatically "pro" the opposite?

Ron Paul simply feels that it is not the place of the US to weigh in on the Burma situation. Granted, his reasoning is a little anachronistic but in terms of the philosophical underpinnings of the USA (i.e. the constitution and the Declaration of Independence as well as the writing of the founding father's) I see why he advocates this position.

Now, I'm not agreeing with Dr. Paul, though I am a Libertarian. I'm simply saying there are people in America who hold on to these founding ideals.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[bucheon bum]

[ontheway]

Since it's pretty clear none of you have read the bill, here it is:



HCON 200 RFS


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. CON. RES. 200

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

October 3, 2007
Received and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Condemning the violent suppression of Buddhist monks and other peaceful demonstrators in Burma and calling for the immediate and unconditional release of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.

Whereas on August 15, 2007, Burma's ruling military junta, the State Peace and Development Council (SPDC), cancelled fuel subsidies resulting in the quintupling of the price of fuel which had an immediate and damaging impact on the living conditions of the Burmese people and Burma's already devastated economy;

Whereas on August 19, 2007, in reaction to this crippling measure, prominent student and democracy leaders peacefully took to the streets in Rangoon and elsewhere to protest the draconian action of the military junta in Rangoon; during the subsequent weeks, protests continued in Rangoon, and spread to other cities and towns throughout Burma, including Mandalay, Sittwe, Pakokku, Tounggok, Yehangyaung;

Whereas the growing numbers of protestors peacefully demanded democratic reforms and the release of 1991 Noble Peace Prize Winner Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and all political prisoners and prisoners of conscience;

Whereas Buddhist monks actively participated and increasingly led these peaceful demonstrations, culminating in an estimated 100,000 people marching through Rangoon on September 24, 2007; in response to this largest protest since the 1988 demonstrations which were brutally crushed by the Burmese military by firing on unarmed civilians, the Burmese regime threatened to `take action', indicating the junta's willingness to significantly increase the level of violence used against the Burmese people;

Whereas on September 25, 2007, the Burmese junta imposed a 60-day (9pm-5am) curfew and a ban on gatherings of more than five people and moved military forces into strategic locations;

Whereas on September 26, 2007, the Burmese military opened fire on protesting crowds who bravely continued to peacefully demand democratic reforms; the continuing vicious attacks on Buddhist monks and other peaceful protesters, who were simply demanding human rights, democracy, and freedom, led to the reported deaths of 200 people and hundreds of injured to date; democracy and human rights groups further estimate that over 2,000 individuals have been arrested, imprisoned, or tortured as part of this violent crackdown;

Whereas members of the international and Burmese media covering the protests, including a Japanese photojournalist, have also been killed, injured, or imprisoned by the Burmese Government;

Whereas the Burmese military junta tried to hide from the world community its indiscriminate attacks on peaceful protestors by severely restricting the use of the Internet, phone lines, and radio and television equipment, making it extremely difficult to gauge the full extent of the government's crackdown on Buddhist Monks and other peaceful demonstrators;

Whereas on September 27, 2007, the United Nations Security Council held an emergency session in response to the brutal crackdown and Special Envoy Ibrahim Gambari updated the Security Council on the situation in Burma; as a result of the Security Council meeting, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon ordered Special Envoy Gambari to visit the region; on September 30, 2007, Special Envoy Gambari arrived in Burma and was able to meet with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi;

Whereas the Burmese regime has mobilized all its resources, including armed soldiers stationed in all strategically important locations throughout the country, including religious centers, and has made it impossible for peaceful protesters to gather;

Whereas the rapid growth of spontaneous demonstrations into the largest Burmese protests in the last two decades should not come as a surprise given the human rights record of the regime over the past two decades;

Whereas the ruling military junta in Burma has one of the worst human rights records in the world and routinely violates the rights of Burmese citizens, including the systematic use of rape as a weapon of war, extrajudicial killings, arbitrary arrests and detention, torture, as well as slave and child labor;

Whereas the Burmese regime has destroyed more than 3,000 ethnic villages, displaced approximately 2,000,000 Burmese people, more than 500,000 of which are internally displaced, and arrested approximately 1,300 individuals for expressing critical opinions of the government;

Whereas in 1990, the State Law and Order Restoration Council (SLORC), the military junta in Burma, which renamed itself the State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) in 1997, nullified the victory of the National League for Democracy (NLD);

Whereas NLD leader Daw Aung San Suu Kyi was not allowed to assume the office of Prime Minister and was subsequently placed under house arrest;

Whereas Daw Aung San Suu Kyi was released in July 1995, yet once again placed under house arrest in September 2000;

Whereas following a second release, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and several of her followers were attacked by a government-sponsored mob on May 30, 2003, and she was then imprisoned at Insein Prison in Yangon;

Whereas on May 16, 2007, more than 50 world leaders sent a letter demanding the release of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, a demand repeated by United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, 14 United Nations human rights experts, the European Union, the United States, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), and the foreign ministers of three ASEAN member states, yet on May 27, 2007, her detention was extended; and

Whereas for her non-violent struggle for democracy and human rights, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1991: Now, therefore, be it


Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That Congress--

(1) condemns the despicable crackdown on peaceful protesters in the strongest possible terms and demands that the Burmese junta end its violent crackdown on dissent;

(2) demands that the People's Republic of China and other countries that provide political and economic support to Burma's military junta end such support until the Burmese regime's violent campaign against peaceful protest has ceased and the Burmese Government has fully met the political demands of the Burmese opposition;

(3) firmly insists that Burma's military regime begin a meaningful tripartite political dialogue with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, the National League for Democracy, and ethnic nationalities toward national reconciliation, and the full restoration of democracy, freedom of assembly, freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and internationally recognized human rights for all Burmese citizens;

(4) demands the immediate and unconditional release of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, detained Buddhist monks, and all other political prisoners and prisoners of conscience;

(5) calls on governments around the world, including the nations of the European Union and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to severely tighten their sanctions regimes against Burma, including through the imposition of import bans such as maintained by the United States, with the goal of denying the Burmese ruling junta with hard currency to continue its campaign of repression;

(6) calls on the United Nations Security Council to immediately pass a resolution imposing multilateral sanctions on Burma's military regime, including a complete arms embargo, and to take other appropriate action to respond to the growing threat the State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) poses in Burma;

(7) calls on the United States Government to work with its global partners to bring to justice those Burmese military and government leaders who have ordered or participated in any massacre during or after the protests, or who may be guilty of crimes against humanity; and

(8 calls on the members of ASEAN to immediately suspend Burma's membership in such organization as a response to the violent crackdown on political protesters.
Passed the House of Representatives October 2, 2007.

Attest:

LORRAINE C. MILLER,

Clerk.

[Pluto]

[ontheway]

Now, if you actually read the resolution:

It calls for a lot of action through the use of sanctions, which libertarians oppose because it is a violation of the principles of individual liberty, violates the rights of American citizens, and violates the rights of individual Burmese citizens to engage in peaceful free trade.

It calls for the use of the UN which libertarians in general, and Republicans traditionally have opposed. Why use an organization that is directly opposed to the US constitution and attempts to destroy the liberties of Americans, an organization that supports socialism and the end of liberty around the world?


This is not just a consensus resulution that says the junta is bad, dictators are bad and political prisoners should be released. It calls for misguided actions.

Finally, it is not generally accepted by economists and political scientists that sanctions will bring about desired changes. Cuba and North Korea have survived sanctions for decades. It can be quite clearly argued that sanctions have been total failures in bringing about change that leads to liberty, freedom or even democratic reforms. Sanctions do have a track record of making the innocent citizens poorer, and causing the ruling regime to become more hardline, more entrenched and more determined. Sanctions seem to have the effect of keeping dictators in power.

It seems that 413 members of the house, along with Joojoo and Jinju want the junta to stay in power forever.

[Pluto]

[bucheon bum]

Sanction also brought back North Korea to the negotiating table. When it was no longer able to gain access to funds in Macau, North Korea eventually "found the light." Not a ringing success, but it was progress.

One could argue that while sanctions were ineffective and hurt Iraqi civilians enormously, they did help prevent Saddam from obtaining WMD and building up his military again following the first Gulf War. Ironically enough, we were not aware of how effective our deterrents were against the Iraqi gov't until after the invasion in 2003 (including Operation Desert Fox in 1998).

And as Pluto just pointed out (as a couple of us have before), it is a highly centralized economy. We're not talking about a lassiez-faire system here.

[Ya-ta Boy]