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Dome Vans
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 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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I like Moonbat, Joo. It's a good name.
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| The occupation is illegal ? According to who. The UN has in fact has now given it the ok. |
The US doesn't give a fig if it's illegal or not. Guantanamo Bay has been, and still is illegal. Have America shut the god awful place down? No. Has pressure and proof of it's illegality from other countries led to it being closed down? No. The War was illegal, the occupation is also illegal. America is trying to fix it's own mess, with a "plan".
Imagine what it would have been like if America invaded and then buggered off without occupying. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dome Vans"]I like Moonbat, Joo. It's a good name.
whatever.
[
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The US doesn't give a fig if it's illegal or not. Guantanamo Bay has been, and still is illegal. Have America shut the god awful place down? No. Has pressure and proof of it's illegality from other countries led to it being closed down? No. The War was illegal, the occupation is also illegal. America is trying to fix it's own mess, with a "plan". |
Gitmo is illegal ? No
The war was not illegal cause Saddam never gave up his war.
The occupation is illegal ? Says who
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| Imagine what it would have been like if America invaded and then buggered off without occupying. |
The US needs miltary bases sorry. The Kurds will accept them in their area. |
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Dome Vans
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Quote:
The US doesn't give a fig if it's illegal or not. Guantanamo Bay has been, and still is illegal. Have America shut the god awful place down? No. Has pressure and proof of it's illegality from other countries led to it being closed down? No. The War was illegal, the occupation is also illegal. America is trying to fix it's own mess, with a "plan".
Gitmo is illegal ? No
The war was not illegal cause Saddam never gave up his war.
The occupation is illegal ? Says who |
Gitmo is illegal. Anyone with any shred of common sense can see it. But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead. If they are guilty, prove it. Seems to work in other forms of the legal profession. Sorry I forgot it's illegal, so you can't.
If the war was illegal then the occupation is also illegal, still nice to give the Iraqi's some target practice while Cheney ponders his next puppetmaster move. Sure it'll be a good one. "hey! more construction contracts for me" |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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HEY, SOLDIERS: QUIT WHINING!
Wed Oct 24, 7:09 PM ET
Troops Suck Up to Bush, Ask for Support
COLUMBUS, OHIO--Over a year ago, in March 2006, the military newspaper Stars and Stripes published the results of a Zogby poll of troops serving in Iraq. 72 percent said U.S. forces should withdraw within a year. Twenty-five percent thought we should pull out right away. But 85 percent said a major reason they were there was "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the September 11 attacks." These people are confused, to say the least.
Even more confusing is the persistent flow of complaints by Iraq War veterans that Americans on the home front are partying like it's 2009 while their comrades back in Vichy Mesopotamia are getting blown up.
CONT'D ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20071024/cm_ucru/heysoldiersquitwhining;
_ylt=Aj1pjnqWlMZRB4Tk7_seRUIEtbAF |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Dome Vans"][
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| Gitmo is illegal. Anyone with any shred of common sense can see it |
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No it isn't
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| But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead. |
they will get miltary trials
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| If they are guilty, prove it. Seems to work in other forms of the legal profession. Sorry I forgot it's illegal, so you can't. |
They are different from other criminals and the US justice system isn't up to dealing with a military problem.
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| If the war was illegal then the occupation is also illegal, |
the war wasn't illegal cause Saddam never gave up his war.
and the UN has ok ed the occupation.
As I said the war on terror will be easier than the cold war. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
Spinoza: "Canucklehead"? Your Wildean wit cuts me to the quick. Ouch! But, as you said, you are wrong when you are right. Er, no, you are wrong when you are wrong ..er, no...two rights make a wrong...er...ah, fack it...keep ingesting the chemicals that IGTG has been giving you....
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I would give up all my democratic rights in support of a dictator who promises to rid the world of canuckleheads.
Canuckleheads don't even deserve to die, let alone live. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Why is the Taliban still knocking about? Why haven't they been blown to smitherens by America. |
Because they're hiding in caves and receiving sanctuary from sympathizers in Pakistan.
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| They're bad people, yeh? Hold on a sec, they're actually useful to America, they control the Opium growth and selling and America get a big cut of it, that's why the Taliban are still there. |
Prove it.
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State sponsored terrorism is fine. I keep forgetting this. America would be sadly out of pocket if they didn't invade Afghanistan to 'eradicate' the Taliban. If they'd stuck round in Afghanistan before buggering off to Iraq then they may have got rid of them. BUt they didn't.
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We've still got troops there. Also, this notion that we're receiving money from the drug trade is ridiculous. You asked the question about why the Taliban 'are still knocking about'? Well, the drug trade for one is helping to finance the Taliban, not the US. The enormous size of the US economy is backing the US military.
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Gitmo is illegal. Anyone with any shred of common sense can see it. But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead. If they are guilty, prove it. Seems to work in other forms of the legal profession. Sorry I forgot it's illegal, so you can't.
If the war was illegal then the occupation is also illegal, still nice to give the Iraqi's some target practice while Cheney ponders his next puppetmaster move. Sure it'll be a good one. "hey! more construction contracts for me" |
Illegal according to what laws, treaties or statutes that the US is beholden too? Sorry, your 'common sense' will never hold in any court of law.
But then again, perhaps you should go to law school. Hear there is good business for EU lawyers that hate America. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine
Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.
Thomas Paine
These are times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.
Thomas Paine |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead |
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they will get miltary trials |
If you can use Human Rights Watch as a reason to show that Saddam 'gassed' the kurds then I can to:
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| Human Rights Watch said that neither is a legitimate reason for delaying the closure of Guantanamo. The federal courts in the United States have proven far better equipped to try terrorists than military commissions. In the past five-and-a half years, the federal courts have successfully convicted hundreds for terrorist offenses, including dozens for terrorist acts committed abroad. By comparison, the military commissions have secured just one conviction by a guilty plea. That was Australian David Hicks, who received a nine-month sentence that he is serving at home. Moreover, there is no reason why the detainees who have been cleared for release or transfer cannot be repatriated from the United States, rather than from Guantanamo. |
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/22/usdom16240.htm
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| If they are guilty, prove it. Seems to work in other forms of the legal profession. Sorry I forgot it's illegal, so you can't. |
They are different from other criminals and the US justice system isn't up to dealing with a military problem. |
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| The detainees held by the United States were classified as "enemy combatants" - a term often criticised for being used in place of "Prisoners of War" after President Bush signed a memorandum stating that no Taleban or al-Qaeda detainee will qualify as a prisoner of war and that Article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions will not apply to them either. Common Article 3 requires fair trial standards and prohibits torture, cruelty, and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detainment_camp
Yep what a way to get out of that nice and fair Article 3. Call them something else and then strip them of their rights. Way to go Georgey!!
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Gitmo is illegal. Anyone with any shred of common sense can see it. But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead. If they are guilty, prove it. Seems to work in other forms of the legal profession. Sorry I forgot it's illegal, so you can't.
If the war was illegal then the occupation is also illegal, still nice to give the Iraqi's some target practice while Cheney ponders his next puppetmaster move. Sure it'll be a good one. "hey! more construction contracts for me" |
Illegal according to what laws, treaties or statutes that the US is beholden too? Sorry, your 'common sense' will never hold in any court of law.
But then again, perhaps you should go to law school. Hear there is good business for EU lawyers that hate America. |
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On November 8, 2004, a federal court halted the proceeding of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, 34, of Yemen. Hamdan was to be the first Guant�namo detainee tried before a military commission. Judge James Robertson of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the U.S. military had failed to convene a competent tribunal to determine that Hamdan was not a prisoner of war under the Geneva Conventions -- specifically Article 5 of the third Geneva Convention[115]
However, a three judge panel overturned judge Robertson's ruling on Friday July 15, 2005.[116] The panel's ruling stated that the trial by military commission could, in and of itself, serve as the necessary "competent tribunal". On June 29, 2006, the Supreme Court reversed the ruling of the Court of Appeals and found that President Bush did not have authority to set up the war crimes tribunals and that the commissions were illegal under both military justice law and the Geneva Convention.[117][118] The Supreme Court reserved the question that Judge Robertson found decisive, namely it did not rule on whether detainees were entitled to an Article 5 determination or not. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detainment_camp
Anymore? Joo and Pluto, you really need to start thinking outside the box. Gauntanamo is illegal and has been proved that it doesn't even get convictions. If you want to carry on the belief that America is holding these people correctly and legally you really need look up the meaning of 'fair'. There is objections to this within the US government, that's for a reason. This 'Camp' is only fuelling hatred within the Muslim world for the West.
This isn't America-hating on my part, it's called being a human and having a conscience. Try it! |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Anymore? Joo and Pluto, you really need to start thinking outside the box. Gauntanamo is illegal and has been proved that it doesn't even get convictions. If you want to carry on the belief that America is holding these people correctly and legally you really need look up the meaning of 'fair'. There is objections to this within the US government, that's for a reason. This 'Camp' is only fuelling hatred within the Muslim world for the West.
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I wasn't refering to Gitmo, I was actually refering to Iraq. As far as Gitmo is concerned, I agree that the best way to deal with that place is to close it.
The 'Camp' isn't actually not what is fueling hatred in Muslim nations. Joo has a point when he says that Muslim leadership and poor governence is what is at the core of the problem. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Illegal according to what laws, treaties or statutes that the US is beholden too? Sorry, your 'common sense' will never hold in any court of law. |
Pluto, I was including you because in your post you replied with the above post. The 'common sense' is with closing Gitmo. But I understand that you feel that it isn't somewhere that should still be existing. And that's fine. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.
Samuel Adams |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Dome Vans"][quote]
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Quote:
But if you thinking holding people without trial and administering torture for years is fair then go ahead |
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If you can use Human Rights Watch as a reason to show that Saddam 'gassed' the kurds then I can to:
| Quote: |
| Human Rights Watch said that neither is a legitimate reason for delaying the closure of Guantanamo. The federal courts in the United States have proven far better equipped to try terrorists than military commissions. In the past five-and-a half years, the federal courts have successfully convicted hundreds for terrorist offenses, including dozens for terrorist acts committed abroad. By comparison, the military commissions have secured just one conviction by a guilty plea. That was Australian David Hicks, who received a nine-month sentence that he is serving at home. Moreover, there is no reason why the detainees who have been cleared for release or transfer cannot be repatriated from the United States, rather than from Guantanamo. |
There is no way the US could handle all those who are with AQ. The US has been able to put away about only 3 dozen terrorists in 15 years.
There are thousands of Jihadists.
It is not only a legal problem but a miltary problem. and Human rights watch has an opinion but they are not a legal authority.
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| The detainees held by the United States were classified as "enemy combatants" - a term often criticised for being used in place of "Prisoners of War" after President Bush signed a memorandum stating that no Taleban or al-Qaeda detainee will qualify as a prisoner of war and that Article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions will not apply to them either. Common Article 3 requires fair trial standards and prohibits torture, cruelty, and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." |
But they are not Just POWs . Fighting for a country is not a crime but fighting for a terror group is. Calling AQ POWs is a insult to POWs.
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Yep what a way to get out of that nice and fair Article 3. Call them something else and then strip them of their rights. Way to go Georgey!! |
In fact the US also had enemy combants in WW II.
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Illegal according to what laws, treaties or statutes that the US is beholden too? Sorry, your 'common sense' will never hold in any court of law. |
It is not illegal.
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Anymore? Joo and Pluto, you really need to start thinking outside the box. Gauntanamo is illegal and has been proved that it doesn't even get convictions. If you want to carry on the belief that America is holding these people correctly and legally you really need look up the meaning of 'fair'. There is objections to this within the US government, that's for a reason. This 'Camp' is only fuelling hatred within the Muslim world for the West. |
The US justice system is not up to handling AQ.
Just remember the US had to let Bin Laden go cause the Clinton administration thought the US could not convict him.
IF they go through the US justice system then the US will have to disclose its sources of information and how it gets information.
and information that was obtained through an illegal search will not be allowed.
In a war? no way.
It is not only a legal problem but a national security problem.
As for Gitmo they are treated pretty well they eat stuff like Tandorri chicken . It much better than any prison in the mideast.
It is no accident that most of the inmates at Gitmo get fat there.
It is not even about convictions it is about keeping these creeps out of circulation so they can't cause any more problems.
What is a mid easterner doing in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban.
But one thing the US could do is start charging those who took a shot at an American solider with attempted murder. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I do not believe that civilization will be wiped out in a war fought with the
atomic bomb. Perhaps two-thirds of the people of the earth will be killed.
Albert Einstein
We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine
(Let's not put these two in a room together) |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| The detainees held by the United States were classified as "enemy combatants" - a term often criticised for being used in place of "Prisoners of War" after President Bush signed a memorandum stating that no Taleban or al-Qaeda detainee will qualify as a prisoner of war and that Article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions will not apply to them either. Common Article 3 requires fair trial standards and prohibits torture, cruelty, and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." |
But they are not Just POWs . Fighting for a country is not a crime but fighting for a terror group is. Calling AQ POWs is a insult to POWs. |
OK, this is a War on Terror. Yes a War. Ok now these guys were caught and are being held on some mystery charges that we'll never know because America doesn't give a shit about human rights. So they are Prisoners. So now they are unbelievably called Prisoners of War. But no, because you give POW's some basic human rights. But by simple terminology they are POWs. You heap them together and they are POW's. People being held for the duration of the war (however long this might last for). There's no 2 ways of fudging this, you can't invent a new term to get round certain human rights laws. But obviously you can, if you're America.
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| It is not only a legal problem but a national security problem. |
For America it's been dressed up as, everything usually is, a"national security issue" to anyone who's not in the current state of a nodding dog, it's a legal issue.
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| As for Gitmo they are treated pretty well they eat stuff like Tandorri chicken . It much better than any prison in the mideast. |
I don't never to laugh or cry at this comment. I might try and do both. Maybe for some photo shoot they get a tandoori. Do they get breakfast slips that they need to hang on the outside of their door by 12am to be sure of getting their continental breakfast?
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It is not even about convictions it is about keeping these creeps out of circulation so they can't cause any more problems.
What is a mid easterner doing in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban. |
If they've done something wrong then prove it. Military trials have been proved to be ineffective. As you've said they need to be kept out of harms way, with whichever way America can think of doing it. But if they've not done anything how can you keep them locked up. There's not even the old adage "Guilty until proven innocent here" They don't even get that luxury. Let's just hold them until they die, commit suicide etc. Nice and fair that.
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| But one thing the US could do is start charging those who took a shot at an American solider with attempted murder. |
As discussed about 2 months ago. Bullets move really quick that's why they kill people. How on earth are you going to know who's been taking the shots? Maybe from now on everyone should write their names on their own bullets so we can make this nice and fair.
Cannon Fodder Yank 1: "Hey he took a shot"
Cannon Fodder Yank 2: "You're kidding me why would he do that?"
CFY1: "I have no idea, let's go and arrest him, and see if we can get some justice"
CFY2: "Yes let's"
Both run off with some handcuffs and an arrest warrant. Cue music!
Romantic scenario, I'm sure you could turn it into a hollywood blockbuster. I'd have Matt Damon as soldier 1 and Ben Stiller as soldier 2. |
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