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Why are the doctors here so rude
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venus



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanson wrote:
venus wrote:
I have to jump in here on the defense of Korean doctors.
In three years here Korean doctors and dentists are some of the most helpful, flexible and polite, generally nice people I have ever met in my life.

The OP must have met one of the very rare rude ones or maybe was just having an off day...?


Not to trump you, but in 7+ years here, I've met several docs who've been less than cordial and downright rude.

One doc, who treated my wife's ankle inflammation a few years back, was a real jackass. My wife came out of the doc's office to the waiting room, where I was (wouldn't you know it) waiting for her, and she came out with a prescription for 3 different medications. I asked her what meds they were (cuz it was all in Korean) and my wife didn't really know either. So we asked if we could speak to the doc about the meds, just to know. The tone of voice he used, and the obvious disdain he had for us was unmistakable. I remember at one point he pointed to one of the meds and said "anti-inflammation, OK?" as in "are you satisfied now?" and broke into Korean asking us to leave.

Another doc treated my daughter, who had a touch of "atopee", the skin rash infants sometimes get soon after being born. The doctor suggested lotion as the solution. In my presence, when my wife asked if there was any particular brand he'd recommend, he said (in Korean to my wife) "If I tell you to buy a beer, do I have to tell you 'Hite', or 'OB' or 'Cass'? No. I tell you to buy beer, you buy the brand you want!" and ended that spiel with a sigh and roll of the eyes.

Now, that being said, I've also met some wonderful doctors here in Korea, from the man who delivered my daughter to the pediatrician we now see to my dentist, all are wonderful, full of explanations and do their jobs professional and cordially. Unfortunately, it's not all of them.

Finally, I wouldn't chalk it up to racism due to me being a whitie, although that is a possible explanation, I guess. I'm thinking more it's due to them not being used to providing detailed explanations. Since they are not used to it - and this premise I think is solid because even the doc who delivered my daughter mentioned how I was the most involved father he had met in terms of the delivery and prenatal care and that Korean dads tend not to ask questions - they don't know how to react when faced with queries.


Most liekly they are more polite with Westerners that question them than Koreans. In the Korean Hierarchy, which we luckill are often excluded from, you do not question the authority / judgement / abilities of a doctor / professor / dentist etc if you are Korean. They tell you what to do and you unquestioningly follow their orders. I bet your wife was a bit stressed (no offense meant) having to question her doctor like that... Also a lot of docs take pride in their English abilities and enjoy conversing with the native speaker and feeling like a yangban. One of my own doctors who I tutored privately explained this to me....
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periwinkle



Joined: 08 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bijjy wrote:

Then the second doctor.. he was at a paediatrician clinic but they accepted adults too. Anyway, he said I was pretty a few times and I thought nothing of it and and then once he said something about how I should consider being photographed and wrote down his website address along with the prescription. When I got home I looked up the website, and one of the pics was of a really hot asian girl spread out buck naked across a grand piano. Shocked


My second year here I went on a date with my ENT doctor, but I didn't realize it was a date. Surprised I figured it out once I saw how uncomfortable he was when I started asking him about his wife and kids.

It didn't occur to me that my doctor would be interested in me after sucking goo out of my infected ear. I guess they get over things like that real quick, eh? lol~

I had a jackass doctor here once. Solved that problem by never going back, so he lost out on the income. Best way to trump people who are provididng a service, especially if it's their own business. Better yet, take your business to the guy next door, cuz then it's an obvious snub.

Had an a-hole pharmacist here, as well. He messed up the order, but I told him I needed the extended release capsules (my prescription specifically said "ER" on it) and couldn't accept the quick release tablets. He nastily insisted I take what he ordered, etc., etc. I took the prescription back, and never went back. The guy next door was happy to properly order the expensive meds for me for the next several months. Wink

Customer always has the upper hand~
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been to a few Korean doctors for various complaints and haven't experienced any rudeness from them. I haven't spent tons of time talking to them, though, and generally prefer to stay away from doctors as much as possible.

OTOH, I once went to a really horrible doctor in Canada when I was still in university, and she basically turned me off the medical profession. (OK, I didn't exactly care for the institution of modern medicine to begin with, but that experience fed my hatred.)
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LateBloomer



Joined: 06 May 2006

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been to more doctors in just over a year here than I have in the past 20 years (six I think). I didn't find them to be rude. In fact one of them, a busy surgeon, was the kindest, most caring man you could ever imagine. Like doctors in Canada, some seemed more technically competent than others. (I think one of them got his degree in the Korean equivalent of a corn flakes box....but I've had similar thoughts about Canadian doctors) As other people have said, a couple of doctors were uncomfortable when asked questions. And some struggled with English.

Im in Incheon and what bothered me the most was the total inability of hospital support staff to speak any English, especially at Gill Hospital, a large and internationally known teaching hospital. There wasn't even someone who spoke English at the foreigner information station. And I couldn't make appointments over the phone without getting a Korean to
help me. Don't know why they go to the pretense of having an English website beyond their location and phone number. Yes, I do know. This is Korea.
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periwinkle



Joined: 08 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bramble wrote:
I've been to a few Korean doctors for various complaints and haven't experienced any rudeness from them. I haven't spent tons of time talking to them, though, and generally prefer to stay away from doctors as much as possible.

OTOH, I once went to a really horrible doctor in Canada when I was still in university, and she basically turned me off the medical profession. (OK, I didn't exactly care for the institution of modern medicine to begin with, but that experience fed my hatred.)


I've encountered a couple of very unprofessional medical interns back home at a teaching hospital (Tufts University Hospital). You'd think they'd know better.

I get ear infections a lot, and one was pretty severe. The intern was told to look in my ear and the look on her face was priceless. I don't think princesses belong in medicine- I can imagine that girl observing an autopsy, "Oh my GAWD!!!!!!!. That is sooooo NASTY. I'm sooooooooo going to puke. Ewwww!"
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stvwrd



Joined: 31 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone recommend a clinic in Gangnam that I can visit regularly without paying too much and get decent treatment?

I'm very interested in this thread because I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to get treated for my high cholesterol for the past two years now.

Every doctor says the same thing. Blood test, then "You have high cholesterol. Do you exercise?" Yes, I do, "I think you no exercise. Exercise, diet, come back one month later, another blood test."

10 blood tests later and still no meds.

I'll be happy to just find someone that takes what I say about my own body seriously.

I'll chime in with my own anecdote:

I also had a fantastic grandfatherly doctor that took care of me when I had a long cut down the side of my leg that got infected. Unfortunately since he was a specialist I've stopped going to him.

But prior to finding him, I had gone to a big hospital (just south of Seohyun station in Bundang) for treatment. In the ER, I must have told people five times that I'm allergic to penicillin. Sure enough, the nurse comes over with a needle and is about to stick me and I say, "penicillin?" She nods her head yes and proceeds with the alcohol swab.

I was very upset and started asking everyone I knew for good doctor recommendations in the area.

I still had to go back to that hospital the next day for a follow-up antibiotic injection and when I asked what medicine he was about to give me via IV, he gets all defensive and asks "WHY???"

He was also insisting that I stay in the hospital for a week (which, in retrospect, maybe I should have, but definately not with him as my doctor).

The people at the oriental medicine clinics I've gone to have all been super-nice though (Be advised: their English is almost non-existent). The first time you go there it may seem expensive, like 50 bucks, but follow-up visits are quite cheap (I pay 4,000 for weekly acupuncture treatments on my knees).
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MarionG



Joined: 14 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been to a number of Korean doctors. I have serious allergies to penicillin and sulfa, and to any drugs related to either of them. I always tell the doctors this, but despite that one doctor prescribed for me a drug related to penicillan. Fortunately, I requested the names of his prescriptions in English, looked them up on the Internet, so I didn't take it. Now I've found a doctor who DOES take drug allergies seriously, but he doesn't seem to know what drugs are related to what.

However, my experience has been that while doctors in hospital clinics are pleasant, they are rushed. Doctors in private clinics seem to take more time.
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stvwrd, I�m sorry to hear of your penicillin experience, but I�m going to have to side with the doctors when it comes to your cholesterol problem. You need to start eating properly and not rely on drugs to save you from your own bad habits.

This link may be a good place to start:

Dr. McDougall�s approach

Best of luck with this. I really think it�s the only hope for any of us.
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Hanson



Joined: 20 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

venus wrote:
Hanson wrote:
venus wrote:
I have to jump in here on the defense of Korean doctors.
In three years here Korean doctors and dentists are some of the most helpful, flexible and polite, generally nice people I have ever met in my life.

The OP must have met one of the very rare rude ones or maybe was just having an off day...?


Not to trump you, but in 7+ years here, I've met several docs who've been less than cordial and downright rude.

One doc, who treated my wife's ankle inflammation a few years back, was a real jackass. My wife came out of the doc's office to the waiting room, where I was (wouldn't you know it) waiting for her, and she came out with a prescription for 3 different medications. I asked her what meds they were (cuz it was all in Korean) and my wife didn't really know either. So we asked if we could speak to the doc about the meds, just to know. The tone of voice he used, and the obvious disdain he had for us was unmistakable. I remember at one point he pointed to one of the meds and said "anti-inflammation, OK?" as in "are you satisfied now?" and broke into Korean asking us to leave.

Another doc treated my daughter, who had a touch of "atopee", the skin rash infants sometimes get soon after being born. The doctor suggested lotion as the solution. In my presence, when my wife asked if there was any particular brand he'd recommend, he said (in Korean to my wife) "If I tell you to buy a beer, do I have to tell you 'Hite', or 'OB' or 'Cass'? No. I tell you to buy beer, you buy the brand you want!" and ended that spiel with a sigh and roll of the eyes.

Now, that being said, I've also met some wonderful doctors here in Korea, from the man who delivered my daughter to the pediatrician we now see to my dentist, all are wonderful, full of explanations and do their jobs professional and cordially. Unfortunately, it's not all of them.

Finally, I wouldn't chalk it up to racism due to me being a whitie, although that is a possible explanation, I guess. I'm thinking more it's due to them not being used to providing detailed explanations. Since they are not used to it - and this premise I think is solid because even the doc who delivered my daughter mentioned how I was the most involved father he had met in terms of the delivery and prenatal care and that Korean dads tend not to ask questions - they don't know how to react when faced with queries.


Most liekly they are more polite with Westerners that question them than Koreans. In the Korean Hierarchy, which we luckill are often excluded from, you do not question the authority / judgement / abilities of a doctor / professor / dentist etc if you are Korean. They tell you what to do and you unquestioningly follow their orders. I bet your wife was a bit stressed (no offense meant) having to question her doctor like that... Also a lot of docs take pride in their English abilities and enjoy conversing with the native speaker and feeling like a yangban. One of my own doctors who I tutored privately explained this to me....


While I agree with your post, I don't agree with the terminology you used. My wife I didn't question the doc, we simply asked him to explain the meds he had prescribed. Nothing more nothing less. There's a big difference, in my opinion, between "question" and "ask to explain". While you are right that my wife was apprehensive (none taken, venus), and rightly so with many (not all) doctors in Korea, neither she nor I will let the possibility of a doc getting huffy stop us from being well-informed.

Again, I must stress that many doctors here are cordial and informative. When my wife was undergoing prenatal care, we discussed a rather detailed birthplan (non-use of epidurals, episiotomy, breech (sp?), complications, dad's role during the birth, ...) and the doctor was fantastic, taking great pains with terrible English to explain in a mix of English and Korean (fine by me) everything we were curious about.

It's those uptight, righteous, thumb-up-their-butt docs that ruin it for the rest of the profession.

Finally, seeing as I worked in a hospital for over 10 years before coming to Korea (both part-time and later full-time), I know Canadian doctors (and in my experience, especially surgeons) can be asshats, too, but for different reasons.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanson wrote:
It has happened to me several times, but I've been here a while. I chalk it up to a sense of entitlement, an affront ('How dare he question me!') and/or a fear of being asked to actually explain something (even in Korean to a Korean), and not being able to.


In the last year I've been to about 12 doctors (was a little sick, plus had a baby) - out of them, I'd say about half fit the OP's description.

Many of the older ones feel that "you don't question doctors" - bunk!
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Control Z



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Anyang

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Cholesterol Reply with quote

Bramble,

Cholesterol problems can be genetic and not stem solely from eating habits. My cholesterol was 430 and my LDL was at 370. This problem hit in my mid-twenties, the same time that my brother starting having problems. My mother and maternal grandmother had the same cholesterol numbers as well.

I went vegan for six months because I didn't want to use statins. During this time, I ate lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and exercised every day. As a result, my total level only dropped 20 points. After starting Lipitor, my cholesterol dropped 100 points in the first month. Some people need drugs to control their cholesterol.

It's been my experience that the doctors here are pretty rude to people with cholesterol problems. I've been told all sorts of wacky "tips" and rude comments from medical staff and pharmacists. My favorite is "All Westerners have cholesterol problems. It's all because of their bad diet."
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tsgarp



Joined: 01 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had four regular doctors here. One was a linguistic genius and studied Mandarin Chinese and Hebrew (so he couuld read the Talmud and the Torah withut relying on English translations) in his spare time. He was meticulous in his detailed explanaions of the eczema I had. Two were highly professional and courteous and while not exceptional in their bedside manners, were still very pleasant. My current doctor is a hell of a good guy. I had developed "over-use" syndrome in my shoulder from working out and playing sports. There was no medical literature on it and even the sports therapists I consulted on the internet were at a loss other than to say just rest it for a while (which didn't help). There is virtually no information to be had on this anywhere. He sent me an e-mail two weeks later with what small information he could gather along with a recommended therapy that took care of it in a month. Also, since he wasn't able to treat me or give me any advice when I was in his office, he didn't charge me. Very much a professional and a really nice person.
I did have one bad doctor. The guy was a real louse. Solution, I didn't go back and I told everyone else not to go there. His clinic is now closed and gone.
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Cholesterol Reply with quote

Control Z wrote:
Bramble,

Cholesterol problems can be genetic and not stem solely from eating habits. My cholesterol was 430 and my LDL was at 370. This problem hit in my mid-twenties, the same time that my brother starting having problems. My mother and maternal grandmother had the same cholesterol numbers as well.

I went vegan for six months because I didn't want to use statins. During this time, I ate lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and exercised every day. As a result, my total level only dropped 20 points. After starting Lipitor, my cholesterol dropped 100 points in the first month. Some people need drugs to control their cholesterol.

It's been my experience that the doctors here are pretty rude to people with cholesterol problems. I've been told all sorts of wacky "tips" and rude comments from medical staff and pharmacists. My favorite is "All Westerners have cholesterol problems. It's all because of their bad diet."


Yikes, that does sound alarming. Could you look up a good doctor on the Internet and arrange a long-distance consultation, possibly? I don't know what else to suggest, but I find that vegan-friendly doctors tend to be better informed about these matters and I imagine they're more likely to be helpful, even when there is a genetic component to the problem.

Quote:
All Westerners have cholesterol problems. It's all because of their bad diet.


It sounds as if you're one of the exceptions, Control Z, and that sucks. But can you really blame people for generalizing like that? It's true in so many cases.
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