Korean Job Discussion Forums

Qinella · Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Location: the crib

Discussion of cultural differences with generalizations and condescension, I think, belies implications or claims of critical thinking.

Yes, the problems stated in the OP are crucial. Talk to any Korean and they'll agree with you. Reread that sentence. They already know about the problem. I've heard so many complaints from Koreans that their education system stifles creativity. It really shows in essays, debates, journaling, speech topic selection, and so on.

It is a collectivist culture, and yeah that affects education practices, of course. Without a strict order from the top, I don't expect to see much change.

And let's get over this glorification of 'western' schools. First of all, each country has differences, right? In the US, schools were modeled in such a fashion as to produce good workers. You get them used to boring, routine work and sticking to arbitrary schedules and following commands. How many times in school did you have points deducted for not 'following instructions'? That sure doesn't cry out creativity to me.

I think Americans are by and large uncritical and credulous. That's why we have insane things like putting warning stickers on biology books and debates about marriage being the 'foundation of society' going on. People do not critically examine--they hear something and regurgitate it.

Korea's education system is only slightly worse in terms of stifling creativity.

About giving answers vs. guiding, I rarely had teachers guide me. They basically just asked if anyone had the answer and if no one did they gave it to us. Most kids were too apathetic to care about discovering the answers, anyway. There was no Socratic method involved in any of my classes, I'll tell you that much. Not even my philosophy class in college, ironically.

Alyallen · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:56 am Post subject:

Q.....

whatever · Joined: 11 Jun 2006 Location: Korea: More fun than jail.

pest2 · Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada

whatever · Joined: 11 Jun 2006 Location: Korea: More fun than jail.

Hahaha...Niceuh!

lucas_p · Joined: 17 Sep 2007

excitinghead · Joined: 18 Jul 2005

I can't believe that in 2 pages of posts devoted to the topic, nobody seems to have mentioned that in Korea, what University you go to determines your job prospects for your entire life. Nobody cares about your skills: if you don't get into one of the "SKY" universties - Seoul National, Koryeo, or Yonsei - then you can forget about ever becoming anybody in Korea, although the value of getting a degree overseas is changing this slightly (and causing all the fake degree mania).

Consequently, getting a high enough score on the 수능시험/Su-nung Shi-hom, or University Entrance Exam, is the single most important goal in a young Korean's life. Nothing is more important. I teach the English-listening section of the test to students who didn't do as well as they liked last year and so are sitting it again this year (in 15 days), and some of them are doing it for a third time, and this November 16th I guarantee you'll read that at least 10 students nationwide will have jumped from their apartment windows the night before because they think they did badly. Seriously, parents are praying for their children's high scores at temples as you read this.

Personally I'll be leaving Korea when my daughter reaches 13, because from about middle school the whole Korean education system shifts from teaching children about the world, and not doing at all badly I think, to teaching them how to pass the test. They're not at all the same, and there's not much scope for creativity in the largely mulitiple choice test, so why teach it? The parents and students just want high scores, and those would help the teacher's career too.

Why do Koreans care more about what University you go to than what you learn there? I'm sure we've all got an opinion. If anyone wants 5000 words of mine, check out this post on my blog below. I know I'm tooting my own horn a little, but seriously, why has no-one mentioned all this yet?

http://thegrandnarrative.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/the-korean-education-system-and-its-consequences-for-adults-intro-part-1/

I personally got interested in Korean education trying to figure out why Korean early 20-somethings were so damn childish, which sounds very non-PC but everybody who's hung out for more than 5 mins with them knows to be a fact. I don't think Koreans are childish per se, which would indeed be racist, but anyone from any country would act like they're 16 if they're really 22 too if they've done nothing but study and get 5 hours sleep a night since they were 13 years old.

renzobenzo1 · Joined: 08 Sep 2007 Location: Suji, Yongin

^^^^ excuse my naievety, but could you explain the nature of this test....is it entirely in English or is a major part of it written in English?

excitinghead · Joined: 18 Jul 2005

I don't know the precise details for all of the test, which I think covers something like 8-11 subjects and is about 8 hours long and done in two, 4 hour blogs, or maybe about four of 2 hours blogs like in the practice tests my students do. It starts something like 8am in the morning, so on that day many people will go to work an hour later to make sure the roads are clear for students to get to the test on time, and quiet while they do the English listening section.

As for the English test, there's a listening multiple choice test of 17 questions at the beginning, which takes about 30 mins, then something like 33 more comprehension questions. They have 90 more minutes to do that.

Can't tell you anymore sorry. I just teach them how to do those 17 questions!

Homer · Guest

What Quin posted was dead on target and much needed in this thread.

There are several disturbing/demeaning posts in this thread. There are also a few amusing double-standard and self-inflicted blindness posts here.

I especially like how people tend to have this glorified memory of their elementary and high school education where everything was stimulating, creative and where the rivers were made of liquid chocolate.... Laughing

Basically, I find some of the comments made here to be very revealing of the nature of certain people....

Quin, thanks for the post.

I also agree with the fact that from middle school on students here tend to prepare for that big university entrance test and that the university will have a major impact on what job you can get later in life. This does pollute the system to a certain extent.

pest2 · Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Of course the public school system in Korean isnt as 'evolved'... remember: First world economy, third world social culture. They're still stuck on the ways of the past. Give em time to let the culture catch up with the wealth.... granted that might be after most of us are dead, but....

And of course there are problems with ed in the West. Different ones... and probably the effects of those problems are not as detrimental to the people who go through the western ed system or the jobs they do after graduation as compared to what happens here in korea.

One thing I notice is that most of my coteachers know about the problems and if there's one thing they are willing to admit is problematic about korea, its all these issues people are bringing up in this thread. I suspect is a case of some older, more traditional people at the top not allowing change to occur where it should... But eventually, and thankfully, those guys will retire and/or croak and change will usher in.