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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| An attack on Iran will be the lesser of two evils. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| An attack on Iran will be the lesser of two evils. |
what's the other evil exactly? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:49 am Post subject: |
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The point of the program, if you had bothered to watch it, is that there wouldn't be evil if Bush hadn't screwed the pooch (i.e. "Axis of Evil") because before the screwing Iran was working with the US in Afghanistan and was willing to negotiate after the fall of Saddam.
Jinju, I love you, but you actually have to read and watch things other than Bush press releases and FOXNews (or Gazeta Wyborcza). |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
The point of the program, if you had bothered to watch it, is that there wouldn't be evil if Bush hadn't screwed the pooch (i.e. "Axis of Evil") because before the screwing Iran was working with the US in Afghanistan and was willing to negotiate after the fall of Saddam.
Jinju, I love you, but you actually have to read and watch things other than Bush press releases and FOXNews (or Gazeta Wyborcza). |
How do you know that Iran was willing to negotiate?
Furthermore Iran had and has been turning down open offers for better relations going back to 1986.
and then there is the question of whether Iran's government keep its word. I seem to remember that Iran promised to lift the death sentance on Rushdie and they still haven't.
I think the US would be perfectly justified in attacking Iran based on everything that Iran has done up till now. That being said I don't think it would be the best choice.
I think the US has a better option. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Good program.
It does make you wonder, "What if...?"
It's one more example of the Election of '00 being a key turning point. At this point, about all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that nothing happens before Jan. '09. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| An attack on Iran will be the lesser of two evils. |
what's the other evil exactly? |
| Quote: |
Tuesday, October 09, 2007
Iran's Timeline of Terror
Quote:
I followed the link at the end of the article to his essay published September 11, 2007 at The Claremont Institute.
"Iran's Proxy War Against America, (PDF)" covers the evidence of Iranian links to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups regardless of their Sunni, Shiite or Palestinian sympathies. ......
November 4, 1979
Fifty-two American citizens are taken hostage by �students� loyal to Ayatollah Khomeini. They are held for more than a year, until January 20, 1981. The kidnappings are part of the Iranian revolution, which serves as a model for Sunni terrorist groups like Ayman al-Zawahiri�s Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
April 18, 1983
Iran�s master terrorist, Imad Mugniyah, orchestrates the first significant Islamist suicide attack against America: the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Establishing a modus operandi for terrorists in the years to come, the attacker utilizes a van packed with explosives.
October 23, 1983
Using massive truck bombs, Hezbollah�s suicide bombers simultaneously attack the U.S. Marine Barracks and a housing complex for French Paratroopers in Beirut, Lebanon. Al-Qaeda would later adopt simultaneous suicide bombings as its preferred method for committing attacks.
December 12, 1983
Iranian-backed terrorists bomb the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait. A close relative of Imad Mugniyah is convicted by a Kuwaiti court and sentenced to death for his role in the bombing. Other attackers,
also supported by Iran, are imprisoned. The terrorists come to be known as the �Kuwait 17� or �Dawa 17.� 75 iran�s proxy war against america
March 16, 1984
William Buckley, the CIA�s station chief in Beirut, is kidnapped and later tortured-to-death by Imad Mugniyah�s Hezbollah. Buckley�s kidnapping is one in a series of Hezbollah�s kidnappings from the early 1980s through the early 1990s. Dozens of Americans are kidnapped and Hezbollah frequently demands an exchange for the Kuwait 17. Hezbollah�s kidnappings lead to the biggest scandal of President Ronald Reagan�s tenure, the Iran-Contra affair, after the Reagan administration agrees to exchange arms for the hostages.
September 20, 1984
Hezbollah terrorists strike the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut with a truck bomb.
December 3, 1984
Mugniyah�s operatives hijack Kuwait Airways Flight 221. The hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17.
June 14, 1985
Mugniyah�s terrorists hijack TWA Flight 847. Once again, the hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17. When the hijackers� demands are denied, they beat and kill a U.S. Navy serviceman, Robert Dean Stethem, who happened to be on the flight. Incredibly, Germany granted parole to one of the hijackers in December 2005.
1990
According to Ali Mohamed, a top al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, Ayman al-Zawahiri�s Egyptian Islamic Jihad partners with Iran in a planned coup attempt in Egypt. Tehran trains EIJ terrorists for the coup attempt, which is ultimately aborted. Iran also pays al-Zawahiri $2 million for sensitive information concerning 76 national security studies the Egyptian Government�s plans to raid several islands in the Persian Gulf.
1991
Iran and Sudan, then the world�s only Sunni Islamist states, forge a strategic alliance. They begin to jointly export terrorism throughout the world.
April 1991
Hassan al-Turabi hosts the first Popular Arab Islamic Conference in Sudan. The conference provides a forum for disparate forces in the Middle East who oppose American presence in the region to come together. Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iraqi and Iranian representatives all attend the meeting.
February 26, 1993
Terrorists connected to al-Qaeda and the global terror network bomb the World Trade Center using a rental truck packed with explosives. The bombers� colleagues plot a follow-on attack against landmarks in the NYC area. There is no known evidence that Iran had a hand in these events. It is clear, however, that several of the plotters had ties to Hassan al-Turabi�s Sudan. Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the spiritual leader of the two leading Egyptian terrorist groups (both of which will join al- Qaeda) and who was living in the New York metropolitan area, is later convicted for his involvement in the attacks. Reports surface that he and his organization received financial assistance from Iran.
1993
According to Ali Mohamed, Imad Mugniyah and Osama bin Laden meet in Sudan. Bin Laden expresses his desire to model al- Qaeda after Hezbollah. In particular, bin Laden expresses interest in Mugniyah�s bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut in 1983 77 iran�s proxy war against america and similar attacks. They agree to work together against America and the West.
1993
According to Jamal al-Fadl, an al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, bin Laden meets a leading Iranian sheikh in Sudan. The purpose of the meeting is to put aside any differences between their competing brands of Islam in order to come together against their common enemy: the West. The meeting is just the first of several between bin Laden and Iran�s spiritual leaders.
1993
Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps train al- Qaeda�s terrorists in camps in Sudan, Lebanon and Iran. Among the terrorists trained are some of bin Laden�s most trusted lieutenants and al-Qaeda�s future leaders.
1993
Egypt and Algeria cut off diplomatic ties with Iran. Both nations accuse Iran and Sudan of supporting Sunni terrorism, including terrorist groups affiliated with al-Qaeda. Egypt will blame Iran for supporting both the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Group throughout the 1990�s.
November 13, 1995
Two bombs are detonated, nearly simultaneously, at the Saudi National Guard training facility in Riyadh, killing five Americans. The suspects are captured and confess to being inspired by Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden denies responsibility, but praises the attack. It is likely al-Qaeda�s first terrorist attack inside the Saudi Kingdom. 78 national security studies
November 19, 1995
An al-Qaeda suicide bomber destroys the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. The CIA�s Bob Baer later learns that Mugniyah�s deputy assisted al-Qaeda in the attack and that one of bin Laden�s top terrorists remained in contact with Mugniyah�s offi ce months afterwards.
May 1996
Bin Laden is expelled from Sudan, but the 9/11 Commission reports that �intelligence indicates the persistance of contacts� between al-Qaeda and Iran even after al-Qaeda�s relocation to Afghanistan. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda maintain an ongoing presence in Sudan, despite not being �formally� welcome.
June 21 - 23, 1996
Tehran hosts a summit for the leading Sunni and Shiite terrorist groups. It is announced that the terrorists will continue to focus on U.S. interests thoughout the region. Mugniyah, bin Laden, and a leading member of the EIJ reportedly forge the �Committee of Three,� under the leadership of Iran�s intelligence chief, to focus their joint efforts against American targets.
June 25, 1996
Hezbollah terrorists, operating under the direction of senior Iranian officials, bomb the Khobar Towers apartment complex in Saudi Arabia. Contemporaneous reports by both the State Department and the CIA note that al-Qaeda is also suspected of playing a role. The 9/11 Commission would later find �indirect evidence� of al-Qaeda�s involvement. The evidence includes intelligence indicating that al-Qaeda was planning a similar operation in the months prior and that bin Laden was congratulated by other al-Qaeda operatives, including Ayman al-Zawahiri, shortly after the attack. 79 iran�s proxy war against america
July 1996
According to Bob Baer, the Egyptian Islamic Group�an ally of bin Laden�s al-Qaeda�is in contact with Mugniyah.
1996
According to Bob Baer, there is �incontrovertible evidence� of a meeting between bin Laden and a representative of the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS).
August 7, 1998
Al-Qaeda�s suicide bombers simultaneously destroy the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. It is al-Qaeda�s most spectacular attack prior to 9/11. The attack is clearly modeled on Hezbollah�s attacks in the early 1980s. Indeed, the al-Qaeda terrorists responsible were trained by Hezbollah in the early 1990s. There is evidence that Iran also provided explosives used in the attack.
October - November 2000
Imad Mugniyah and his lieutenants personally escort several of the 9/11 muscle hijackers out of Saudi Arabia on flights to Beirut and Iran. In all, eight to ten of the hijackers travel through Iran on the way to 9/11.
December 2000
Ramzi Binalshibh, al-Qaeda�s key point man for the 9/11 plot, applies for visa at the Iranian Embassy in Berlin. His visa application is approved.
January 31, 2001
Ramzi Binalshibh arrives at Tehran International airport. He does not return to Germany until February 28, 2001. The purpose of his trip to Iran remains a mystery. The 9/11 Commission does not mention Binalshibh�s trip to Iran. 80 national security studies
Early September 2001
Binalshibh flees to Iran shortly before the 9/11 attacks.
September 11, 2001
Nineteen al-Qaeda hijackers execute al-Qaeda�s largest operation to date, killing nearly 3000 Americans. Many of the details surrounding the plot, including who financed the attack, remain a mystery.
October 2001
According to a high-level Taliban detainee at Gitmo, Iran offers the Taliban Government assistance in retreating from Afghanistan.
October 2001
Numerous press reports indicate that Iran aids the retreat of hundreds of al-Qaeda and Taliban members from Afghanistan. Some al-Qaeda operatives enjoy safehaven in Iran to this day. Among them is Said al-Adel, who is reportedly the third highest ranking member of al-Qaeda and was trained by Hezbollah during the early 1990s, and Saad bin Laden, Osama�s heir apparent.
April 11, 2002
Al-Qaeda carries out the first attack ordered by bin Laden since 9/11: a suicide bomber destroys a synagogue in Tunisia, killing nineteen people. According to NBC News, Saad bin Laden contacted the cell responsible for the attack from his safehaven in Iran. Suleiman Abu Ghaith, bin Laden�s spokesman, also claims al-Qaeda�s responsibility for the attack from his abode in Iran.
End of 2002 - Spring 2003
According to former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet, senior al-Qaeda leaders discuss the acquisition of nuclear weapons from their safe haven in Iran. In fact, al-Qaeda�s �nuclear 81 iran�s proxy war against america chief,� Abdel al-Aziz al-Masri, is one of many senior terrorists living in Iran.
May 12, 2003
Under orders from Saif al-Adel and Saad bin Laden, who are operating from Iran, al-Qaeda�s terrorists simultaneously strike three separate housing complexes in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. Another al- Qaeda agent thought to be responsible for the attack flees to Iran before he can be captured.
May 16, 2003
One dozen al-Qaeda bombers attack several targets in Casablanca, Morocco. Saad bin Laden, living in Iran, is reportedly in contact with the cell shortly before the attack.
2004 � present
Iran supplies advanced IED technology to the insurgents in Iraq. There is growing evidence of Iranian support for both Sunni and Shiite insurgency groups in Iraq. Iran continues to harbor senior al-Qaeda leaders as the terrorist network reorganizes.
January 20, 2007
IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists kill five American soldiers in Karbala, Iraq
January 2007 � present
Numerous IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists, who are responsible for arming and training terrorist groups in Iraq, are captured by American and Iraqi forces. 82 national security studies. |
http://demediacraticnation.blogspot.com/2007/10/irans-timeline-of-terror.html |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
How do you know that Iran was willing to negotiate? |
joo, you didnt watch it did you?
no one will ever take you seriously unless you READ or WATCH what is being discussed.
jeez...... |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How do you know that Iran was willing to negotiate?
Furthermore Iran had and has been turning down open offers for better relations going back to 1986.
and then there is the question of whether Iran's government keep its word. I seem to remember that Iran promised to lift the death sentance on Rushdie and they still haven't. |
How do you know Iran wasn't willing to negotiate?
What a joke, I didn't know that letter ahmadinejad wrote was such a slap in the face. I guess for such a deep and sentimental man like Bushie, all open offers of frindship need to be accompanied by thoughtful creations like sketches of doves canoodling in olive trees, or maybe he would have liked a matching friendship braclet which had both country flag colours on, all woven together, connecting to create something oh so beautiful, representing the journey they would embark on. Or maybe a picture book was more appropriate. Anything otherwise is just pure evil! damn persians terrorists!
Oh no, a joke of a decree and the country is deemed evil. Keeping one's word is something all politicians/"leaders" are unable to do. I'd like to know how on earth the U.S. has been so noble in your eyes in these past few years, please sir, enlightne us. Open your eyes. (great movie) |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How do you know that Iran was willing to negotiate?
Furthermore Iran had and has been turning down open offers for better relations going back to 1986.
and then there is the question of whether Iran's government keep its word. I seem to remember that Iran promised to lift the death sentance on Rushdie and they still haven't. |
How do you know Iran wasn't willing to negotiate?
What a joke, I didn't know that letter ahmadinejad wrote was such a slap in the face. I guess for such a deep and sentimental man like Bushie, all open offers of frindship need to be accompanied by thoughtful creations like sketches of doves canoodling in olive trees, or maybe he would have liked a matching friendship braclet which had both country flag colours on, all woven together, connecting to create something oh so beautiful, representing the journey they would embark on. Or maybe a picture book was more appropriate. Anything otherwise is just pure evil! damn persians terrorists!
Oh no, a joke of a decree and the country is deemed evil. Keeping one's word is something all politicians/"leaders" are unable to do. I'd like to know how on earth the U.S. has been so noble in your eyes in these past few years, please sir, enlightne us. Open your eyes. (great movie) |
i've come to the conclusion that joo isn't capable of expressing original thought.
he is only capable of posting links to websites he doesn't read.
however, he is very good at repeating what he hears on FOX. |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
i've come to the conclusion that joo isn't capable of expressing original thought.
he is only capable of posting links to websites he doesn't read.
however, he is very good at repeating what he hears on FOX. |
Doesn't it make a you sad? I don't mind much if he's just bored and wan'ts to yank our chanks but if one really believes like him, it makes my heart ache. Literally. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
i've come to the conclusion that joo isn't capable of expressing original thought.
he is only capable of posting links to websites he doesn't read.
however, he is very good at repeating what he hears on FOX. |
Doesn't it make a you sad? I don't mind much if he's just bored and wan'ts to yank our chanks but if one really believes like him, it makes my heart ache. Literally. |
agreed...fully |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| An attack on Iran will be the lesser of two evils. |
what's the other evil exactly? |
having Iran exist as it does currently. Iran should be partitioned along ethnic lines, Tehran government should be arrested and executed and Iran should no longer be Iran. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
The point of the program, if you had bothered to watch it, is that there wouldn't be evil if Bush hadn't screwed the pooch (i.e. "Axis of Evil") because before the screwing Iran was working with the US in Afghanistan and was willing to negotiate after the fall of Saddam.
Jinju, I love you, but you actually have to read and watch things other than Bush press releases and FOXNews (or Gazeta Wyborcza). |
Wyborcza is a liberal paper. Dont you know about Michnik? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How do you know that Iran was willing to negotiate?
Furthermore Iran had and has been turning down open offers for better relations going back to 1986.
and then there is the question of whether Iran's government keep its word. I seem to remember that Iran promised to lift the death sentance on Rushdie and they still haven't. |
How do you know Iran wasn't willing to negotiate?
What a joke, I didn't know that letter ahmadinejad wrote was such a slap in the face. I guess for such a deep and sentimental man like Bushie, all open offers of frindship need to be accompanied by thoughtful creations like sketches of doves canoodling in olive trees, or maybe he would have liked a matching friendship braclet which had both country flag colours on, all woven together, connecting to create something oh so beautiful, representing the journey they would embark on. Or maybe a picture book was more appropriate. Anything otherwise is just pure evil! damn persians terrorists!
Oh no, a joke of a decree and the country is deemed evil. Keeping one's word is something all politicians/"leaders" are unable to do. I'd like to know how on earth the U.S. has been so noble in your eyes in these past few years, please sir, enlightne us. Open your eyes. (great movie) |
Cause Iran has been turning down the US for years.
at anyrate
| Quote: |
Iran rejects US delegation plan
Iran said the time was not right for the planned delegation to visit
Iran has turned down the US offer of a high-level humanitarian delegation to deliver earthquake relief.
US officials planned to send Senator Elizabeth Dole, a former head of the American Red Cross, on the mission.
But the state department said the Iranians were holding the visit "in abeyance" and the US had decided not to pursue it for the moment.
Earlier an Iranian cleric accused the US of trying to exploit the disaster, which killed more than 30,000 people.
The US authorities have already eased sanctions on Iran to allow Americans to make financial donations for disaster relief. An American medical and disaster relief team is also working in the country.
Toned down
US state department deputy spokesman, Adam Ereli, said the US delegation offer was made for humanitarian, and not political, reasons.
"We don't see the response as political either," he said.
US aid workers are already helping in Bam's relief effort
The BBC's John Leyne, in Washington, says the Iranian response shows that Tehran seems unwilling to move from humanitarian aid to more of a political reconciliation.
President George W Bush has said America's easing of some sanctions and its readiness to help Iran, after last week's earthquake, does not signal a change in Washington's policy.
Meanwhile, hard-line right-winger, Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, said at Friday prayers in Tehran: "Naturally America wanted to take advantage of this situation by offering some help and bringing up the issue of relations." |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3364345.stm |
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