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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Please stop spamming the board with this nonsense and forcing others to deal with your neurosis. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Please stop spamming the board with this nonsense and forcing others to deal with your neurosis. |
Thanks Loose Ends 
Appreciate your effort & dedication in establishing the truth to what really happened, & who possibly could have been behind these terrible mass murders.
God-speed.
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Please stop spamming the board with this nonsense and forcing others to deal with your neurosis. |
Seconded. Isn't there another forum you can go to so that you can be with your own kind? |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Please stop spamming the board with this nonsense and forcing others to deal with your neurosis. |
i'm not forcing you. you can ignore it.
can you explain the flashes?
did you watch the videos?
how deep is your denial? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm
Conspiracy theories are often built around anomalies which are difficult to prove either way. The "assumptionists" are convinced they know what the anomaly is. One such anomaly is the so called "Squibs".
They say this anomaly is an explosive charge going off and a sure sign of Controlled Demolition. It's often followed by more video of charges going off in real Controlled Demolitions. But if we examine the anomaly closely, we see these [would be] explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They tend to spurt out and then increase with time. An explosive works in reverse to this. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time.
So what is this then? Why would debris jet out of windows far below the collapse?
It could be a number of things, by themselves or in combination. One reasonable explanation is a buildup of pressure caused by the compression of air between the floors as they pancaked, (Please read the link to explain the NIST / Pancaking issue) pushed debris out of the already broken windows and/or open vents. Another is falling debris like elevators or elevator parts/motors and/or columns free falling down the elevator shafts and slamming into lower floors creating debris. In a sense the floors are large plungers and the towers are just one big Syringe during the collapse.
During the pancake, the floors acted like a plunger in a Syringe. The towers skin and windows became the tube of the Syringe. The increased pressure blew the windows out as each massive acre of floor compressed air between them. It's said that the towers were about 95% air. But not all the air went so easily out the window space. There was just as much window as there was steel perimeter columns. So the air takes the path of least resistance to the core. The core is collapsing and thick debris is preventing the air from going up. Its next path of least resistance would be to go down the core. The air pushed though the core any way it could and the pressure built up. It forced its way out on lower floors wherever it could. According to the survivors of at least one tower, a hurricane wind blows through the staircase which is located in the core...
Matt Komorowski: �The first thing I really felt was the incredible rush of air at my back. And maybe I felt it before everybody else, because I was the last guy.�
Stone Phillips: �Like a gust of wind, behind you.�
Matt Komorowski: �Gust of wind. Wind tunnel. It was the most incredible push at your back, that you can feel.�
http://www.acfd.com/miracle_of_ladder_company_6.htm
BILL BUTLER, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: We took two steps down from the fourth floor and the building started to shake.
SALVATORE D'AGOSTINO, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: You could hear the floors pancaking one on top of the other, huge explosions.
LIM: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and faster as they get closer. What I remember the most was the wind. It created almost like a hurricane-type force and actually pushed one of the firemen right by me.
MIKE MELDRUM, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: I was flown down a flight of stairs, a little groggy for a while. I noticed somebody on a half landing just up from me, a few stairs and I thought it was one of our guys and it was David Lim.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/07/pitn.00.html
Of course, I expect the conspiracy theorists to say this was just the explosives which caused the high wind ("He even says explosions!") but they have no evidence of explosives. We do have evidence of pancaking. The ejecta coming out of the windows of the pancaking floor was uniform across the floor and light in color. It was coming out of every floor window until the falling debris obscured its view. Controlled demolition has staggered ejecta because the charges are only on some columns. You also always see at least [some] before the collapse and not [only] during it. There are none of these jets of debris before collapse.
Another point is the amount of these so called squibs. Some are laughably small wisps of smoke. I won�t even bother with these. These are people who are searching every video, frame by frame in order to find something which they can use. Some are simply glass falling and reflecting sunlight or a piece of aluminum cladding doing the same. Yet, some seem to be heavy jets out of a window on one floor and another jet of debris about 30 to 40 stories below as the collapse progresses. I have to admit, when I first saw this I didn't know what to make of it. But as I thought of the possibilities, I also thought of what it needed to be if it were a demolition. In all the controlled demolitions I've seen, there have been a large amount of explosives on almost all floors. Even some small buildings have many charges. Why would they put charges on what seems like only a couple of floors? And once the collapse progressed, why would they care about the 40th floor? When the top 70 floors are crashing down on the 40th floor; even conspiracy theorists have trouble believing that floor would stop the collapse. And even if it did, the message is sent. The towers were no longer usable after the top 70 stories fell on it. It would be an added and absurd risk to add explosives on the lower floors.
The best explanation which fits the evidence is that there were heavy objects free falling down the elevator shafts and hitting the lowest landings. The explosive force of one of these...
hitting the elevator, then lower floors would be tremendous. Hitting an elevator below would only add to the weight and explosive effect. It would send debris away from the impact point with great force. It's not unreasonable to suspect these heavy objects obliterated the fireproofed gypsum on the way down. Couple that with the over pressure of the collapse and you have a good candidate for what we see. Is that the only thing it could be? Not at all. I, like the conspiracy theorists, don't have an inventory of every window that was broken and every piece of equipment which could have created the effect.
So, we are left with jets of debris which do not act like explosives, on not enough floors to have caused the collapse. We also have some likely explanations which do not involve explosives.
The NAIL in the coffin of Jones' credibility
Jones points to something he says are demolition squibs on WTC 7.
Note the dark area in the right hand corner. (South west corner. This video was taken from the north west.) Jones and the conspiracy theorists call these demolition squibs.
But had the "Scholars" done a little research, they would have uncovered this photo of the south side...
Note the damaged south west corner. (This photo was taken from the south west
Now look at them together
North west video screen shot South west photo
Squibs? Or a damaged window area doing what a damaged window area would do during a collapse, falling apart... Still not convinced? Look at a higher resolution of the video...
http://www.knowordie.co.uk/WTC7.avi
The video image Jones shows is also zoomed, creating artifacts off the damaged area. This is clearly shown on 911myths.
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_squibs.html
Professor Jones writes..
"Horizontal puffs of smoke and debris are observed emerging from WTC-7 on upper floors, in regular sequence, just as the building starts to collapse. (The reader may wish to view the close-up video clip again.) The upper floors have not moved relative to one another yet, as one can verify from the videos. "
You may also want to look at this video which is from the front and does not show any "Puffs" from the right side (West) of the building.
Puffs of smoke or simply damaged panels hanging on for dear life coming away from the building during a violent collapse?
What would the purpose be in setting off charges in that corner of the building anyway? A question not answered in this conspiracy story. The only purpose this has is to create evidence around another fuzzy anomaly.
This is the kind of thing the "scholars" want us to pay millions more investigating. Personally, I could think of a few other pressing issues to spend millions on. Like research into the collapse of critical thinking skills in American and UK universities.
The only thing falling faster than free fall seems to be Jones' scientific and research credibility. |
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm
Conspiracy theories are often built around anomalies which are difficult to prove either way. The "assumptionists" are convinced they know what the anomaly is. One such anomaly is the so called "Squibs".
They say this anomaly is an explosive charge going off and a sure sign of Controlled Demolition. It's often followed by more video of charges going off in real Controlled Demolitions. But if we examine the anomaly closely, we see these [would be] explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They tend to spurt out and then increase with time. An explosive works in reverse to this. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time.
So what is this then? Why would debris jet out of windows far below the collapse?
It could be a number of things, by themselves or in combination. One reasonable explanation is a buildup of pressure caused by the compression of air between the floors as they pancaked, (Please read the link to explain the NIST / Pancaking issue) pushed debris out of the already broken windows and/or open vents. Another is falling debris like elevators or elevator parts/motors and/or columns free falling down the elevator shafts and slamming into lower floors creating debris. In a sense the floors are large plungers and the towers are just one big Syringe during the collapse.
During the pancake, the floors acted like a plunger in a Syringe. The towers skin and windows became the tube of the Syringe. The increased pressure blew the windows out as each massive acre of floor compressed air between them. It's said that the towers were about 95% air. But not all the air went so easily out the window space. There was just as much window as there was steel perimeter columns. So the air takes the path of least resistance to the core. The core is collapsing and thick debris is preventing the air from going up. Its next path of least resistance would be to go down the core. The air pushed though the core any way it could and the pressure built up. It forced its way out on lower floors wherever it could. According to the survivors of at least one tower, a hurricane wind blows through the staircase which is located in the core...
Matt Komorowski: �The first thing I really felt was the incredible rush of air at my back. And maybe I felt it before everybody else, because I was the last guy.�
Stone Phillips: �Like a gust of wind, behind you.�
Matt Komorowski: �Gust of wind. Wind tunnel. It was the most incredible push at your back, that you can feel.�
http://www.acfd.com/miracle_of_ladder_company_6.htm
BILL BUTLER, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: We took two steps down from the fourth floor and the building started to shake.
SALVATORE D'AGOSTINO, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: You could hear the floors pancaking one on top of the other, huge explosions.
LIM: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and faster as they get closer. What I remember the most was the wind. It created almost like a hurricane-type force and actually pushed one of the firemen right by me.
MIKE MELDRUM, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: I was flown down a flight of stairs, a little groggy for a while. I noticed somebody on a half landing just up from me, a few stairs and I thought it was one of our guys and it was David Lim.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/07/pitn.00.html
Of course, I expect the conspiracy theorists to say this was just the explosives which caused the high wind ("He even says explosions!") but they have no evidence of explosives. We do have evidence of pancaking. The ejecta coming out of the windows of the pancaking floor was uniform across the floor and light in color. It was coming out of every floor window until the falling debris obscured its view. Controlled demolition has staggered ejecta because the charges are only on some columns. You also always see at least [some] before the collapse and not [only] during it. There are none of these jets of debris before collapse.
Another point is the amount of these so called squibs. Some are laughably small wisps of smoke. I won�t even bother with these. These are people who are searching every video, frame by frame in order to find something which they can use. Some are simply glass falling and reflecting sunlight or a piece of aluminum cladding doing the same. Yet, some seem to be heavy jets out of a window on one floor and another jet of debris about 30 to 40 stories below as the collapse progresses. I have to admit, when I first saw this I didn't know what to make of it. But as I thought of the possibilities, I also thought of what it needed to be if it were a demolition. In all the controlled demolitions I've seen, there have been a large amount of explosives on almost all floors. Even some small buildings have many charges. Why would they put charges on what seems like only a couple of floors? And once the collapse progressed, why would they care about the 40th floor? When the top 70 floors are crashing down on the 40th floor; even conspiracy theorists have trouble believing that floor would stop the collapse. And even if it did, the message is sent. The towers were no longer usable after the top 70 stories fell on it. It would be an added and absurd risk to add explosives on the lower floors.
The best explanation which fits the evidence is that there were heavy objects free falling down the elevator shafts and hitting the lowest landings. The explosive force of one of these...
hitting the elevator, then lower floors would be tremendous. Hitting an elevator below would only add to the weight and explosive effect. It would send debris away from the impact point with great force. It's not unreasonable to suspect these heavy objects obliterated the fireproofed gypsum on the way down. Couple that with the over pressure of the collapse and you have a good candidate for what we see. Is that the only thing it could be? Not at all. I, like the conspiracy theorists, don't have an inventory of every window that was broken and every piece of equipment which could have created the effect.
So, we are left with jets of debris which do not act like explosives, on not enough floors to have caused the collapse. We also have some likely explanations which do not involve explosives.
The NAIL in the coffin of Jones' credibility
Jones points to something he says are demolition squibs on WTC 7.
Note the dark area in the right hand corner. (South west corner. This video was taken from the north west.) Jones and the conspiracy theorists call these demolition squibs.
But had the "Scholars" done a little research, they would have uncovered this photo of the south side...
Note the damaged south west corner. (This photo was taken from the south west
Now look at them together
North west video screen shot South west photo
Squibs? Or a damaged window area doing what a damaged window area would do during a collapse, falling apart... Still not convinced? Look at a higher resolution of the video...
http://www.knowordie.co.uk/WTC7.avi
The video image Jones shows is also zoomed, creating artifacts off the damaged area. This is clearly shown on 911myths.
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_squibs.html
Professor Jones writes..
"Horizontal puffs of smoke and debris are observed emerging from WTC-7 on upper floors, in regular sequence, just as the building starts to collapse. (The reader may wish to view the close-up video clip again.) The upper floors have not moved relative to one another yet, as one can verify from the videos. "
You may also want to look at this video which is from the front and does not show any "Puffs" from the right side (West) of the building.
Puffs of smoke or simply damaged panels hanging on for dear life coming away from the building during a violent collapse?
What would the purpose be in setting off charges in that corner of the building anyway? A question not answered in this conspiracy story. The only purpose this has is to create evidence around another fuzzy anomaly.
This is the kind of thing the "scholars" want us to pay millions more investigating. Personally, I could think of a few other pressing issues to spend millions on. Like research into the collapse of critical thinking skills in American and UK universities.
The only thing falling faster than free fall seems to be Jones' scientific and research credibility. |
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm |
did you read it joo?
pre-collapse demolition flashes....911 debunking ---unexplained
pre-collapse demolition squibs....911 debunking-----unexplained
post-initiation flashes....911 debunking-----unexplained
it is funny cuz all you have is 911 debunking......which is a feakin joke.
do some more research joo....or at the very least, read what you post. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: |
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http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm
| Quote: |
| Conspiracy theories are often built around anomalies which are difficult to prove either way. The "assumptionists" are convinced they know what the anomaly is. One such anomaly is the so called "Squibs |
By the way why ought anyone just take that video at face value. know one knows how many times the flashes have been played and or replayed.
I don't know why 9-11 conspiracy theorists themselves ought to be beyond being questioned?
and from one of the comments
| Quote: |
Nah, I don't see or hear any demo charges in this clip, and there's certainly no apparent structural weakening that results from demo charges.
There's not a single demolition expert who says explosives brought down the towers. Not one. In the world. |
that kind of is what I saw.
Loose ends you need to do better. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Space, Earth and the Sounds of Explosions
Could transformers or other electrical equipment explain some of what the firemen saw and heard? What about an acre of concrete floor slamming into another? Would steel bolts snapping under tremendous tension make a pop or explosive sound? Assuming the towers weren't in the vacuum of space, we can be fairly safe to say the things I mentioned are good candidates to explain what the firemen heard. Even they think so...
Assistant Fire Commissioner: "I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they . . . blow up a building. . . ?�
But if you read on...
"I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever."
This is a quote taken out of context. Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking it out of context...
I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_
WTC_GRAPHIC/Gregory_Stephen.txt
Here is a fireman saying it could have been "electrical explosions".
What a transformer explosion looks like...
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion
These buildings, as most office buildings in America had transformers and other high voltage electrical equipment.
Electrical Fire Hurts 6 at Trade Center
Published: July 24, 1992
An air-conditioning transformer five stories below the World Trade Center caught fire after an explosion last night, the authorities said. Six people were injured, none of them seriously, but the 110-story twin towers did not have to be evacuated, the authorities said.
The fire was first reported at 10:02 P.M. in a 13,000-volt transformer in the Trade Center's refrigeration plant, which provides air conditioning and ventilation for the complex, the Fire Department and the Port Authority said. The electrical fire, which went to three alarms, was brought under control at 11:24 P.M., said a Fire Department official, Lieutenant Erick Weekes.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0DF1031F937A15754C0A964958260
February 26, 1993. It started like most other days. A 4 A.M. wake up, coffee and a buttered roll while driving to work at the Manhattan Central Office. At 12:18 P.M., lunch was being served when we received a call via a street alarm box at the corner of West & Liberty Streets. At the same time Engine Company 10, whose quarters are across the street from the World Trade Center, called us via radio and reported a possible transformer vault explosion on West Street near the Trade Center.
Transformer vault (also called manhole) explosions are fairly common place in Manhattan, especially during wet weather. They're highly visible and normally generate numerous telephone calls to the Central Office. We didn't think this one was going to be any different. When Engine 10 advised us by radio they had a working fire in the Trade Center, we thought the transformer vault was located within the basement of the complex. Not a routine event, but still,it's only a transformer vault we thought.
http://www.fdnewyork.com/wtc.asp
"The Trade Center was never designed for the amount of emergency power necessary for all those trading floors they have there," Calabro said. "Tenants would come in and need emergency power, and it was not available."
To solve that problem, E-J Electric set four generators on the roof of Tower 5, which was nine stories, as opposed to the 110-story Towers 1 and 2. E-J then ran high-voltage feeder cable to Towers 1, 2, 4 and 5, installed three substations and distributed power to the tenants.
"We pulled 6,000 feet of high-voltage feeder cable from the roof of Tower 5, through the building, down through the concourse, through the parking garages and to the roof of Tower 1 and 2," Calabro said.
Current standard tenant power capacity is 6W up to 10W per usable square foot depending on location. The World Trade Center's electricity supply is segmented for greater reliability and safety. Eight dedicated 13,800-V feeders divide into 23 building substations. On-floor electrical distribution is routed via at least two electrical closets per floor, each with separate high- and low-voltage bus ducts for tenant-dedicated use."
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_towering_security_2/index.htm
This is a deceptive quote from a conspiracy theory site...
"When we got to about 50 feet from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go...
...There was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down. I stood there for a second in total awe, and then said, "What the F###?" I honestly thought it was Hollywood."
Now let's examine what he said in the context he said it. Here is the part conspiracy sites leave out..
�When we got to about 50 ft from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go. The way I see it, it had to be the rivets. The building let go, there was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down.
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_broadway_electrical_supplys/
He said "The way I see it, it had to be the rivets" but the conspiracy sites remove this important insight. They skipped over the sentence. There is only one reason to do something like that. To mislead the reader by removing all other possibilities for the sounds.
He also says he thinks the rivets caused the building to fall and not bombs. Interestingly, the NIST said most of the failures were at the bolts and connections.
Even bodies hitting the floor sounded like explosions.
�The sight was amazing. I was just totally awestruck. I reported to the command post, showed my ID and asked if I could be of use. They said �Absolutely. Stand off on the side with the other medical people.� I couldn�t fight any fires because I did not have that kind of gear with me, but would have done it if asked.
�I decided to walk closer to the South Tower. I was about 100 ft from the South Tower looking up when the bodies started coming down. I counted 35. They were just piling up on the Marriott Marquis hotel. They were 10 to 15 thick piling up one after another. You could hear them hitting on the side streets. They were hitting cars, and there were lots of explosions.
�I have seen plenty of death in my life, and burned bodies and so forth, but this was incredible. As I was looking up, I saw a body coming down, hit a lamppost and explode like a paint ball. Its arms and legs got torn off and the head ripped off and bounced right by me.�
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/
electric_broadway_electrical_supplys/
The person saying it was an explosion also says bodies hitting the floor sound like explosions. I'm sure they do. I'm sure an acre of concrete floor crashing down onto another acre of concrete floor also sounds like an explosion.
More here
The building was filled with electrical panels and cable feeding them. Some would be no different than a powerline...
It's not unreasonable to conclude, as at least one fireman did that the flashes might have been electrical in nature.
We may never know what exactly caused the flashes. But flashes alone do not mean explosives. You would see more than flashes if an explosive large enough to cut steel were set off. You would see ejecta coming from the same place as the flash.
Then their is William Rodriguez, a worker at the towers. He now says he heard explosions in the basement but that's not what he said before he became a media star and sued the government.
William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.
"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/
Here he is describing something very different than an explosion. The change in his story came after he became a media star and plaintiff.
Mark Roberts does an in-depth investigation into William's claims and history.
http://911stories.googlepages.com/home
As loud as the collapse was, it sounded nothing like an actual controlled demolition...
Conspiracy theorists take quotes out of context in order to sell the idea. An example of just how easy it is to take ear witness accounts out of context is below...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Example video transcript:]
Government Train Wreck: How government covers up freight train accidents�
"The noise sounded like two freight trains going over a trestle right over your head; it was an ugly roar. My wife said the noise when the house went was like a giant pencil sharpener working.�
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/storiesFJ.php
[Did a fright train pass over their head? Was there a giant pencil sharpener really over there heads?]
�While I was in my kitchen I heard this terrible roar coming," she said. "It sounded like a freight train coming right down my road here�
"It looks like it's been bombed. There's just a lot of destruction, a lot of debris," said Michael Bartz, a state emergency official. "
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/09/02...nado/index.html
[Was it a bomb? Did a real freight train go down her road?]
"It indeed sounded like a freight train roaring past us, and when it was gone, we came out to find things a mess."
http://www.offenburger.com/farmarchive.asp?link=20040906
It came with "the roar of forty freight trains."
http://www.tornadochaser.com/UDALL/reports.htm
�It sounded like a freight train�.
http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=2954
�Before I reached the bottom of the stairs, I heard the sound of a roaring freight train�
[enter image of NOAA weather map an hour before the tornado touches down.]
As you can see, there was no tornado on that day, according to NOAA.
So why is the government covering up train derailments?
[enter sinister music]
In 2003 Amtrak was going bankrupt. They couldn't afford to rebuild the homes of Americans after a derailment.
ETC.. ETC..
Looks like someone had the same idea I did...
http://loosetrains911.blogspot.com/
While the Titanic was sinking, passengers heard explosions in the ship. In this case, the "Official Story" would be wrong, using the same conspiracy theory logic. To this day, no one really knows what exactly caused the sound, only that it sounded like an explosion. Some say it was the steel snapping as the ship broke in two. Others say it was the hot steam engines hitting the cold water which exploded. Using Conspiracy Theory logic, it was blown up because witnesses characterized the sound as an "Explosion".
http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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There's not a single demolition expert who says explosives brought down the towers. Not one. In the world. |
are you sure?
HERE"S TWO!!........read what you post silly....i'm making you look silly everytime.
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| A Dutch demolition expert stated �I looked at the drawings, the construction and it couldn't be done by fire. So, no, absolutely not. Building 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. Absolutely.� |
http://www.911proof.com/10.html
and here he is on video.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3_mmGvfQQ
and here is an AMERICAN demolition expert that served in the military.
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| Iraq war veteran and experienced demolitions expert blows the cover on 9/11 inside job |
http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/expert-blows-the-cover-on-911-inside-job/1619/
joo...you realize you haven't stumped me once...right?
keep posting buddy.
ae911truth.org
open your eyes people. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have stumped you quite a few times.
anyway lets look at your site
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ID cards attacked as scans runs into trouble
Thursday, January 11th, 2007
Passengers face massive delays at airports because of problems with new iris-recognition equipment, a Tory MP claimed yesterday.
Posted in Conspiracy, Surveillance |
Diana: Time to end the cover-up
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007
LAWYERS will today argue that police interviews with Prince Charles over Princess Diana’s death must be made public.
Posted in Conspiracy, Breaking-News |
Video: David Icke -Was He Right?
Wednesday, December 27th, 2006
Posted in Conspiracy, Multimedia |
Ex-agent reveals KGB mind control techniques
Sunday, December 24th, 2006
A former KGB officer has divulged secrets of special mind control techniques that security services in developed nations used during and after the Cold War, a Russian government daily said Friday.
Posted in Conspiracy |
Secret Societies: They Are Not Just at Yale - They Are Running a University Near You
Thursday, December 21st, 2006
The world over has heard of Skull and Bones of Yale University. This elite secret society holds within its membership at least four U.S. Presidents. George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry are both members of Skull and Bones.
Posted in Conspiracy |
Ultimate Warrior: Robert Duncan O�Finioan
Saturday, December 16th, 2006
Duncan O’Finioan was the Ultimate Warrior� brainwashed, conditioned and controlled as part of a highly classified MKULTRA program called PROJECT TALENT.
Posted in Conspiracy, Multimedia |
Did the CIA kill Bobby Kennedy?
Tuesday, November 21st, 2006
In 1968, Robert Kennedy seemed likely to follow his brother, John, into the White House. Then, on June 6, he was assassinated - apparently by a lone gunman.
Posted in Conspiracy | |
Who is David Icke? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is a need for a repost loose ends whud du yu think?
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Space, Earth and the Sounds of Explosions
Could transformers or other electrical equipment explain some of what the firemen saw and heard? What about an acre of concrete floor slamming into another? Would steel bolts snapping under tremendous tension make a pop or explosive sound? Assuming the towers weren't in the vacuum of space, we can be fairly safe to say the things I mentioned are good candidates to explain what the firemen heard. Even they think so...
Assistant Fire Commissioner: "I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they . . . blow up a building. . . ?�
But if you read on...
"I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever."
This is a quote taken out of context. Now the WHOLE QUOTE without the taking it out of context...
I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-leve] flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q.: Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A: No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.
I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_
WTC_GRAPHIC/Gregory_Stephen.txt
Here is a fireman saying it could have been "electrical explosions".
What a transformer explosion looks like...
http://www.stupidcollege.com/items/Electric-Transformer-Explosion
These buildings, as most office buildings in America had transformers and other high voltage electrical equipment.
Electrical Fire Hurts 6 at Trade Center
Published: July 24, 1992
An air-conditioning transformer five stories below the World Trade Center caught fire after an explosion last night, the authorities said. Six people were injured, none of them seriously, but the 110-story twin towers did not have to be evacuated, the authorities said.
The fire was first reported at 10:02 P.M. in a 13,000-volt transformer in the Trade Center's refrigeration plant, which provides air conditioning and ventilation for the complex, the Fire Department and the Port Authority said. The electrical fire, which went to three alarms, was brought under control at 11:24 P.M., said a Fire Department official, Lieutenant Erick Weekes.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0DF1031F937A15754C0A964958260
February 26, 1993. It started like most other days. A 4 A.M. wake up, coffee and a buttered roll while driving to work at the Manhattan Central Office. At 12:18 P.M., lunch was being served when we received a call via a street alarm box at the corner of West & Liberty Streets. At the same time Engine Company 10, whose quarters are across the street from the World Trade Center, called us via radio and reported a possible transformer vault explosion on West Street near the Trade Center.
Transformer vault (also called manhole) explosions are fairly common place in Manhattan, especially during wet weather. They're highly visible and normally generate numerous telephone calls to the Central Office. We didn't think this one was going to be any different. When Engine 10 advised us by radio they had a working fire in the Trade Center, we thought the transformer vault was located within the basement of the complex. Not a routine event, but still,it's only a transformer vault we thought.
http://www.fdnewyork.com/wtc.asp
"The Trade Center was never designed for the amount of emergency power necessary for all those trading floors they have there," Calabro said. "Tenants would come in and need emergency power, and it was not available."
To solve that problem, E-J Electric set four generators on the roof of Tower 5, which was nine stories, as opposed to the 110-story Towers 1 and 2. E-J then ran high-voltage feeder cable to Towers 1, 2, 4 and 5, installed three substations and distributed power to the tenants.
"We pulled 6,000 feet of high-voltage feeder cable from the roof of Tower 5, through the building, down through the concourse, through the parking garages and to the roof of Tower 1 and 2," Calabro said.
Current standard tenant power capacity is 6W up to 10W per usable square foot depending on location. The World Trade Center's electricity supply is segmented for greater reliability and safety. Eight dedicated 13,800-V feeders divide into 23 building substations. On-floor electrical distribution is routed via at least two electrical closets per floor, each with separate high- and low-voltage bus ducts for tenant-dedicated use."
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_towering_security_2/index.htm
This is a deceptive quote from a conspiracy theory site...
"When we got to about 50 feet from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go...
...There was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down. I stood there for a second in total awe, and then said, "What the F###?" I honestly thought it was Hollywood."
Now let's examine what he said in the context he said it. Here is the part conspiracy sites leave out..
�When we got to about 50 ft from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go. The way I see it, it had to be the rivets. The building let go, there was an explosion and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down.
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric_broadway_electrical_supplys/
He said "The way I see it, it had to be the rivets" but the conspiracy sites remove this important insight. They skipped over the sentence. There is only one reason to do something like that. To mislead the reader by removing all other possibilities for the sounds.
He also says he thinks the rivets caused the building to fall and not bombs. Interestingly, the NIST said most of the failures were at the bolts and connections.
Even bodies hitting the floor sounded like explosions.
�The sight was amazing. I was just totally awestruck. I reported to the command post, showed my ID and asked if I could be of use. They said �Absolutely. Stand off on the side with the other medical people.� I couldn�t fight any fires because I did not have that kind of gear with me, but would have done it if asked.
�I decided to walk closer to the South Tower. I was about 100 ft from the South Tower looking up when the bodies started coming down. I counted 35. They were just piling up on the Marriott Marquis hotel. They were 10 to 15 thick piling up one after another. You could hear them hitting on the side streets. They were hitting cars, and there were lots of explosions.
�I have seen plenty of death in my life, and burned bodies and so forth, but this was incredible. As I was looking up, I saw a body coming down, hit a lamppost and explode like a paint ball. Its arms and legs got torn off and the head ripped off and bounced right by me.�
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/
electric_broadway_electrical_supplys/
The person saying it was an explosion also says bodies hitting the floor sound like explosions. I'm sure they do. I'm sure an acre of concrete floor crashing down onto another acre of concrete floor also sounds like an explosion.
More here
The building was filled with electrical panels and cable feeding them. Some would be no different than a powerline...
It's not unreasonable to conclude, as at least one fireman did that the flashes might have been electrical in nature.
We may never know what exactly caused the flashes. But flashes alone do not mean explosives. You would see more than flashes if an explosive large enough to cut steel were set off. You would see ejecta coming from the same place as the flash.
Then their is William Rodriguez, a worker at the towers. He now says he heard explosions in the basement but that's not what he said before he became a media star and sued the government.
William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.
"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/new.york.terror/
Here he is describing something very different than an explosion. The change in his story came after he became a media star and plaintiff.
Mark Roberts does an in-depth investigation into William's claims and history.
http://911stories.googlepages.com/home
As loud as the collapse was, it sounded nothing like an actual controlled demolition...
Conspiracy theorists take quotes out of context in order to sell the idea. An example of just how easy it is to take ear witness accounts out of context is below...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Example video transcript:]
Government Train Wreck: How government covers up freight train accidents�
"The noise sounded like two freight trains going over a trestle right over your head; it was an ugly roar. My wife said the noise when the house went was like a giant pencil sharpener working.�
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/storiesFJ.php
[Did a fright train pass over their head? Was there a giant pencil sharpener really over there heads?]
�While I was in my kitchen I heard this terrible roar coming," she said. "It sounded like a freight train coming right down my road here�
"It looks like it's been bombed. There's just a lot of destruction, a lot of debris," said Michael Bartz, a state emergency official. "
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/09/02...nado/index.html
[Was it a bomb? Did a real freight train go down her road?]
"It indeed sounded like a freight train roaring past us, and when it was gone, we came out to find things a mess."
http://www.offenburger.com/farmarchive.asp?link=20040906
It came with "the roar of forty freight trains."
http://www.tornadochaser.com/UDALL/reports.htm
�It sounded like a freight train�.
http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=2954
�Before I reached the bottom of the stairs, I heard the sound of a roaring freight train�
[enter image of NOAA weather map an hour before the tornado touches down.]
As you can see, there was no tornado on that day, according to NOAA.
So why is the government covering up train derailments?
[enter sinister music]
In 2003 Amtrak was going bankrupt. They couldn't afford to rebuild the homes of Americans after a derailment.
ETC.. ETC..
Looks like someone had the same idea I did...
http://loosetrains911.blogspot.com/
While the Titanic was sinking, passengers heard explosions in the ship. In this case, the "Official Story" would be wrong, using the same conspiracy theory logic. To this day, no one really knows what exactly caused the sound, only that it sounded like an explosion. Some say it was the steel snapping as the ship broke in two. Others say it was the hot steam engines hitting the cold water which exploded. Using Conspiracy Theory logic, it was blown up because witnesses characterized the sound as an "Explosion".
http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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joo it is very hard to have a conversation with you.
summarize what you read, and apply it to me.
the things you post are only partially applicable at best.
no need to post full pages, summarize and i will trust you. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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1. Could transformers or other electrical equipment explain flashes.
2. and or the videos were altered
3. Your site (http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/expert-blows-the-cover-on-911-inside-job/1619/ ) is suspect -they use David Icke as a source. I mean at best they are willing to be critical of what Bush says but willing to accept anyone who says anything against Bush without questioning them .
Do you know who David Icke is? |
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