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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Surprise surprise, Musharraf is detaining his opponents now:
News article
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Police rounded up hundreds of opposition leaders and rights activists Sunday after Pakistan's military ruler suspended the constitution, ousted the top judge and deployed troops to fight what he called rising Islamic extremism.
Increasingly concerned by the unfolding crisis, the Bush administration said Sunday that American aid to Pakistan would be reviewed. The U.S. has provided about $11 billion to Pakistan since 2001, when Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, allied with the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks.
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Time to cut that aid. |
On the one hand, I agree that Musharraf is an ingrate. I mean the US did everything it could to save him, even if putting in Bhutto to share power was a clumsy manner of doing so. By all rights and all justice, the US should cut aid.
On the other hand, justice is subordinated to possibility (different from expediency) in the realm of foreign affairs. Musharraf is a lesser evil compared to his greatest enemies, the Islamicists. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| It's instability like this that demonstrates why Pakistan should not have nukes. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Surprise surprise, Musharraf is detaining his opponents now:
News article
| Quote: |
Police rounded up hundreds of opposition leaders and rights activists Sunday after Pakistan's military ruler suspended the constitution, ousted the top judge and deployed troops to fight what he called rising Islamic extremism.
Increasingly concerned by the unfolding crisis, the Bush administration said Sunday that American aid to Pakistan would be reviewed. The U.S. has provided about $11 billion to Pakistan since 2001, when Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, allied with the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks.
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Time to cut that aid. |
On the one hand, I agree that Musharraf is an ingrate. I mean the US did everything it could to save him, even if putting in Bhutto to share power was a clumsy manner of doing so. By all rights and all justice, the US should cut aid.
On the other hand, justice is subordinated to possibility (different from expediency) in the realm of foreign affairs. Musharraf is a lesser evil compared to his greatest enemies, the Islamicists. |
Yet the longer Musharraf stays, the more radical Pakistanis become, and therefore the # of Islamicists increases. The reason is Musharraf can easily crack down on the moderates and more secular opposition but he does not have the cajones to bring down the fundies. This is going to bite us in the ass if we don't distance ourselves from him. Islamic fundamentalists are a minority in Pakistan, and they are concentrated in the (north)west of the country. The last thing we want is for your average Mohammed in Karachi and Lahore thinking the best thing for Pakistan is for a taliban-copy to be in charge of the country. The longer the status quo continues, the more likely that will happen. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Musharraf Declares a State of Emergency |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Ah Pervez Musharraf. The dude just doesn't want to leave office. The ego of people is quite stunning sometimes...
Ny times article
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The Pakistani leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, declared a state of emergency tonight, suspending the country�s constitution, blacking out all independent television news reports and filling the streets of the capital with police officers and soldiers,
The police blocked off the administrative center in the capital city of Islamabad today.
The move appeared to be an effort by General Musharraf to reassert his fading power in the face of growing opposition from the country�s Supreme Court, civilian political parties and hard-line Islamists. Pakistan�s Supreme Court was expected to rule within days on the legality of General Musharraf�s re-election last month as the country�s president, which opposition groups have said was improper. |
His reasoning?
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The order states that attacks by militants have risen to �an unprecedented level of violent intensity� and now �pose a grave threat� to the people of Pakistan. And then accuses the Supreme Court of hampering effort to fight terrorism.
The order accuses �some members of the judiciary� of �working at cross purposes� with the government by releasing some detained militants. It goes on to accuse the Supreme Court of �overstepping the limits of judicial authority� in a variety of areas, including economic policy. |
Attacks by militants hasn't grown recently. Same as it has been the past couple years. It is just a blatant attempt by Musharraf to continue his dictatorship. |
hahaha...wouldn't suprise me if the same thing happens next year.....but in a different country...on the other side of the world. |
Wanna bet? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, i'd be interested in making a wager with loose_ends on that too. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the other poster. Other than certain tribal areas in the north Pakistan in not very radical. Before this "war on terror" I hadnt even heard of pakistan having much trouble with these areas as long as they were left alone to do their own thing.
I got a great idea how to deal with them though. Let's suppourt a dictator in Pakistan who will deny the majority of the population their democratic rights because he's our man in the fight against radical islamic fundamentalists! Sound like a good idea? I think so to. It's worked before, It can work again! |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| yeah, i'd be interested in making a wager with loose_ends on that too. |
He knows the terms, I made a similar bet proposal to him when he was posting under keane. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Pakistani Police Detain 500 Activists
By MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press Writer
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Police and soldiers emboldened by state of emergency powers swept up hundreds of activists and opposition members on Sunday, dragged away protesters shouting "Shame on you!", and turned government buildings into barbed-wire compounds.
Gen. Pervez Musharraf's government said parliamentary elections could be delayed up to a year as it tries to stamp out a growing Islamic militant threat � effectively linking two of the greatest concerns of Pakistan's biggest international donors: the United States and Britain.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pakistan;_ylt=AgUAD5XvpAIQ3IzWae.6lQoDW7oF
Masked Pakistani pro-Taliban militants stand guard at Charbagh, a Taliban strong hold, near Mingora, Pakistan, November 2, 2007. Taliban militants freed 211 Pakistani troops on Sunday after holding them captive since late August in a tribal region near the Afghan border, officials and the military said.
(Sherin Zada Kanju/Reuters)
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:30 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Igotthisguitar would not be posting against Musharif if Musharif was hostile to the US. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Once again, the US gov't does not look at the big picture. If it does see the big picture, then it is just gutless.
| Quote: |
| WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 � The Bush administration signaled Sunday that it would probably keep billions of dollars flowing to Pakistan�s military, despite the detention of human rights advocates and leaders of the political opposition by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the country�s president. |
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In Islamabad, aides to General Musharraf � who had dismissed pleas on Friday from Ms. Rice and Adm. William J. Fallon, the senior military commander in the Middle East, to avoid the state-of-emergency declaration � said they had anticipated that there would be few real consequences.
They called the American reaction �muted,� saying General Musharraf had not received phone calls of protest from Mr. Bush or other senior American officials. In unusually candid terms, they said American officials supported stability over democracy.
�They would rather have a stable Pakistan � albeit with some restrictive norms � than have more democracy prone to fall in the hands of extremists,� said Tariq Azim Khan, the minister of state for information. �Given the choice, I know what our friends would choose.� |
stable now, but what later? |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Once again, the US gov't does not look at the big picture. If it does see the big picture, then it is just gutless.
| Quote: |
| WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 � The Bush administration signaled Sunday that it would probably keep billions of dollars flowing to Pakistan�s military, despite the detention of human rights advocates and leaders of the political opposition by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the country�s president. |
| Quote: |
In Islamabad, aides to General Musharraf � who had dismissed pleas on Friday from Ms. Rice and Adm. William J. Fallon, the senior military commander in the Middle East, to avoid the state-of-emergency declaration � said they had anticipated that there would be few real consequences.
They called the American reaction �muted,� saying General Musharraf had not received phone calls of protest from Mr. Bush or other senior American officials. In unusually candid terms, they said American officials supported stability over democracy.
�They would rather have a stable Pakistan � albeit with some restrictive norms � than have more democracy prone to fall in the hands of extremists,� said Tariq Azim Khan, the minister of state for information. �Given the choice, I know what our friends would choose.� |
stable now, but what later? |
Perhaps an overthrow of the regime sponsored by the only ones who could gather enough suppourt. I'm guessing that may be some Islamist movement that would...
A. Be very hostile against America
B. Even if they were not, would be viewed by the White House as hostile.
Seem familiar anyone? 
But don't worry it all works out in the end. If you want to keep the world in a continuous state of conflict that is. Sorry, that sounds a little conspiracylicious. Maybe the people in charge of foreign policy are just total wankers. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Pakistan's Khan To Face "Terror" Charges
Wed Nov 14, 1:02 PM
LAHORE, Pakistan (AFP) - Police in Pakistan arrested cricket legend Imran Khan and said he would be charged under anti-terrorism laws after he emerged from hiding to join a student protest Wednesday.
He was picked up as former premier Benazir Bhutto hammered the phones from under house arrest in an attempt to forge a united opposition front against a state of emergency imposed by President Pervez Musharraf.
MORE ...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/071114/world/pakistan_politics_417 |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Once again, the US gov't does not look at the big picture. If it does see the big picture, then it is just gutless.
| Quote: |
| WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 � The Bush administration signaled Sunday that it would probably keep billions of dollars flowing to Pakistan�s military, despite the detention of human rights advocates and leaders of the political opposition by Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the country�s president. |
| Quote: |
In Islamabad, aides to General Musharraf � who had dismissed pleas on Friday from Ms. Rice and Adm. William J. Fallon, the senior military commander in the Middle East, to avoid the state-of-emergency declaration � said they had anticipated that there would be few real consequences.
They called the American reaction �muted,� saying General Musharraf had not received phone calls of protest from Mr. Bush or other senior American officials. In unusually candid terms, they said American officials supported stability over democracy.
�They would rather have a stable Pakistan � albeit with some restrictive norms � than have more democracy prone to fall in the hands of extremists,� said Tariq Azim Khan, the minister of state for information. �Given the choice, I know what our friends would choose.� |
stable now, but what later? |
A lot of that money is going to secure nuclear weapons. A lot of this aid has occured while tensions between Pakistan and India simmer down.
America faces a slew of bad choices in the ME.
OTOH, some of that money is going elsewhere. |
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