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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| That's because you have no position. You use to think healthcare was great, and then suddenly you put exclaimers in your position, saying 'it needs reform'. |
ROFL. You mean disclaimers, I take it?
No, Tiger Beer, "we could reform the system," as in, like anyone else, anywhere else "we could make things better" is no disclaimer. And my position has never changed on this matter. Read my posts on whatever thread you have in mind again.
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Well, which one is it? Do you have any kind of position whatsoever with heathcare? |
You are trapped in a simplistic world of extreme dichotomies: either the healthcare system is absolutely "great" or absolutely "broken" in your view. And, according to you, if I do not join you in denouncing it as broken, then I must be arguing it is great.
I cannot exchange views with you like this. |
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Jackie
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Central South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Sure, the system has failed the US. If you lose your job, you lose coverage. What is more, doctors and hospitals earn 2 to 4 times more than they do in any other country in the world. That being said, the US also has a high infant mortality rate when compared to other nations who spend LESS on healthcare. Reform? It is absolutley necessary. You should see the seniors, in the northern states, who line up for the charted buses to Canada. Buying Canadian drugs is the only way they can afford their medications.
The US spends more for medication than any other country. In essence, we subsidize and finance the drug companies, and in so doing, many cannot afford essential medications. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
You are trapped in a simplistic world of extreme dichotomies: either the healthcare system is absolutely "great" or absolutely "broken" in your view. And, according to you, if I do not join you in denouncing it as broken, then I must be arguing it is great.
I cannot exchange views with you like this. |
Clarify your healthcare stance then, John 'Gopher' Kerry.
You're really not that interesting of a poster to search for your stance on healthcare.
But if you are so adamant about wanting to talk about healthcare, just post your stance on this thread, or can't you remember it yourself that you'd prefer me to 'search' for it.  |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Sure, the system has failed the US. If you lose your job, you lose coverage. |
As a 25 year old male coming out of the military, I spent $68 per month on my temp health insurance. I was fully covered by Blue Cross/Blue Shield with a $500 deductable for six months. Blue Cross/Blue Shield are known for being dependable providers. Point is, I left my job and I was covered so it would appear the system has not failed  |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see some system where employers do not share part of the cost. I see that as an unnecessary business expense and not really their responsibility. I'd also like to see a system where coverage is not dependant on employment; I think I've seen it referred to as 'portable coverage'. At the same time, everyone knows group is cheaper than individual. I'd suggest a state-wide system, but that would be impractical because so many move from state to state.
The point about people going to Canada (and Mexico) for medicine is a good one. There is something wrong when it costs $5 to get one aspirin. The cost of making aspirin has not increased 5,000%. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Clarify your healthcare stance then, John 'Gopher' Kerry. |
Why not just read what I have already posted here? You can read, can you not...?
| Gopher wrote: |
| We can and should reform the American healthcare system. But, this notwithstanding, it was never as twisted and evil as you and people like Michael Moore have made it out to be. |
| Gopher wrote: |
| "...we could reform the system," as in, like anyone else, anywhere else, "we could make things better..." my position has never changed on this matter. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jackie wrote: |
Sure, the system has failed the US. If you lose your job, you lose coverage. What is more, doctors and hospitals earn 2 to 4 times more than they do in any other country in the world. That being said, the US also has a high infant mortality rate when compared to other nations who spend LESS on healthcare. Reform? It is absolutley necessary. You should see the seniors, in the northern states, who line up for the charted buses to Canada. Buying Canadian drugs is the only way they can afford their medications.
The US spends more for medication than any other country. In essence, we subsidize and finance the drug companies, and in so doing, many cannot afford essential medications. |
Lemme guess....
Just watched "Sicko?" |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Clarify your healthcare stance then, John 'Gopher' Kerry. |
Why not just read what I have already posted here? You can read, can you not...?
| Gopher wrote: |
| We can and should reform the American healthcare system. But, this notwithstanding, it was never as twisted and evil as you and people like Michael Moore have made it out to be. |
| Gopher wrote: |
| "...we could reform the system," as in, like anyone else, anywhere else, "we could make things better..." my position has never changed on this matter. |
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Gotcha Goph.
"We should change the system, but its not evil and twisted."
Sounds like an 4th grader opinion. I thought you were building yourself up to say something relevant or interesting or thoughtful or provoking.
Nah, something kinda 4th grader-ish. I guess you have nothing to really say about healthcare in any way, shape, or form. I'll go back to skipping your posts and focus on other's who actually have ideas, thoughts.
...and you wonder why I almost always skip over your posts... pretty apparent on this thread. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| ...I was fully covered by Blue Cross/Blue Shield with a $500 deductable for six months. |
This sounds right. Private-sector, too. When people with insurance lose their positions, voluntarily or not, they may purchase an extension for six months or so to carry them over into their next position.
But it seems to me that we ought to have a healthcare system that covers people as taxpayers and not as employees. That way we would remain covered and with the same insurer from one employer to the next, even if there were a gap.
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Gotcha Goph. |
No. You still do not get it.
I said nothing about changing the system. I spoke about reforming it.
Funny. Here I am, the board's resident right-winger. Throwing my weight behind someone like Hillary Clinton and her healthcare worldview and plans (just as I did with respect to her husband in the 1990s). And this still offends the extremists who inhabit this place -- people like you who want to support a guy who would erase the Great Society and the New Deal's gains in one fell swoop.
Imagine that.
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Sounds like an 4th grader opinion. |
I cannot speak for fourth-graders, Tiger Beer -- say, whether they should know the difference between the words "disclaimer" and "exclaimer," especially when punctuating their ideas with indignation and self-righteousness. 
But I do believe that run-of-the-mill fourth-graders can properly use articles. So that at least puts me ahead of you in the school system.
However this may be, I agree with you that this is hardly a fruitful exchange. So good day, then -- and that will be all, Tiger Beer. Time to return to your hockey games, I think. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jackie wrote: |
Sure, the system has failed the US. If you lose your job, you lose coverage. What is more, doctors and hospitals earn 2 to 4 times more than they do in any other country in the world. That being said, the US also has a high infant mortality rate when compared to other nations who spend LESS on healthcare. Reform? It is absolutley necessary. You should see the seniors, in the northern states, who line up for the charted buses to Canada. Buying Canadian drugs is the only way they can afford their medications.
The US spends more for medication than any other country. In essence, we subsidize and finance the drug companies, and in so doing, many cannot afford essential medications. |
Great Post! But also, Often if you are sick you lose your health care! WTF! |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| ...I was fully covered by Blue Cross/Blue Shield with a $500 deductable for six months. |
This sounds right. Private-sector, too. When people with insurance lose their positions, voluntarily or not, they may purchase an extension for six months or so to carry them over into their next position. |
But problems occur when people develop a serious illness in this interim. They are not (it seems from watching US TV news programmes, anyway) allowed to extend their cover and no other company will take them on. So get diagnosed with breast/prostrate cancer a few weeks after being fired and, even though you remain temporarily covered, you are buggered anyway. Ne c'est pas?
| Quote: |
| But it seems to me that we ought to have a healthcare system that covers people as taxpayers and not as employees. That way we would remain covered and with the same insurer from one employer to the next, even if there were a gap. |
Actually that addresses my main concern with the US system. I think that would be the most important improvement. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Funny. Here I am, the board's resident right-winger. Throwing my weight behind someone like Hillary Clinton and her healthcare worldview and plans (just as I did with respect to her husband in the 1990s). And this still offends the extremists who inhabit this place -- people like you who want to support a guy who would erase the Great Society and the New Deal's gains in one fell swoop. |
Okay, so you are aligned with Hiliary Clinton healthcare plan. You finally made a stance somewhere, congrats.
Here is her plan:
http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2007/10/04/Opinion/Sen-Hilary.Clinton.Health.Care.Plan.Better.Than.In.1993-3010576.shtml
| Quote: |
The new proposal suggested two bold national mandates that would bring America closer to patching up its holes in health coverage.
The first would require all individuals to buy health insurance, offering government subsidies to those who cannot afford to do so. Approximately one-third of the 47 million that are uninsured can afford health coverage, but choose not to purchase it.
The second would require insurance companies to cover all clients regardless of age or existing medical conditions. This policy will be contended the most because it is a great risk to insurance companies. |
So you'd require all individuals to buy into the health insurance scam. You'd require all companies to cover everyone as well.
Say hello to skyrocketing insurance costs. Sounds like a lose-lose situation. Insurance companies will have to cover all people passing on the extraordinary extra costs on to those who need healthcare, in addition all people will be required to buy into the insurance industry scam.
*Sigh* Insurance companies, what a scam. That's whats broke in the system in the first place. Great way to involve them a lot more and exacerbate a serious problem. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Funny. Here I am, the board's resident right-winger. Throwing my weight behind someone like Hillary Clinton and her healthcare worldview and plans (just as I did with respect to her husband in the 1990s). And this still offends the extremists who inhabit this place -- people like you who want to support a guy who would erase the Great Society and the New Deal's gains in one fell swoop. |
Okay, so you are aligned with Hiliary Clinton healthcare plan. You finally made a stance somewhere, congrats.
Here is her plan:
http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2007/10/04/Opinion/Sen-Hilary.Clinton.Health.Care.Plan.Better.Than.In.1993-3010576.shtml
| Quote: |
The new proposal suggested two bold national mandates that would bring America closer to patching up its holes in health coverage.
The first would require all individuals to buy health insurance, offering government subsidies to those who cannot afford to do so. Approximately one-third of the 47 million that are uninsured can afford health coverage, but choose not to purchase it.
The second would require insurance companies to cover all clients regardless of age or existing medical conditions. This policy will be contended the most because it is a great risk to insurance companies. |
So you'd require all individuals to buy into the health insurance scam. You'd require all companies to cover everyone as well.
Say hello to skyrocketing insurance costs. Sounds like a lose-lose situation. Insurance companies will have to cover all people passing on the extraordinary extra costs on to those who need healthcare, in addition all people will be required to buy into the insurance industry scam.
*Sigh* Insurance companies, what a scam. That's whats broke in the system in the first place. Great way to involve them a lot more and exacerbate a serious problem. |
"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries � San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."
from http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html
Talk about not getting what you pay for! |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| But problems occur when people develop a serious illness in this interim. They are not (it seems from watching US TV news programmes, anyway)... |
I think you have been far too influenced by a sensationalist media which takes exceptional cases and presents them as everyday life. As I have said before, I do not believe you and many others here actually know much about American ground conditions. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| But problems occur when people develop a serious illness in this interim. They are not (it seems from watching US TV news programmes, anyway)... |
I think you have been far too influenced by a sensationalist media which takes exceptional cases and presents them as everyday life. As I have said before, I do not believe you and many others here actually know much about American ground conditions. |
Even if the situation described happens to only one person, it's an appalling state of affairs. But it's clearly happened to many. |
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