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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: Crustaceans feel pain, according to new study |
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Anyone ever eaten boiled lobster? I'm very glad I never have.
Blow for fans of boiled lobster: crustaceans feel pain, study says
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Sensitive chefs, avert your eyes now. An investigation into the most contentious of kitchen dilemmas has reached its unpalatable conclusion: lobsters do feel pain.
The question of crustaceans' ability to experience pain has become an unlikely obsession for some scientists. Over the past few decades, the question has been batted back and forth as fresh evidence comes to light. Two years ago, Norwegian researchers declared the answer was a firm no, claiming the animals' nervous systems were not complex enough.
The latest salvo, published in New Scientist today, comes from Robert Elwood, an expert in animal behaviour at Queen's University, Belfast. With help from colleagues, he set about finding an answer by daubing acetic acid on to the antennae of 144 prawns.
Immediately, the creatures began grooming and rubbing the affected antenna, while leaving untouched ones alone, a response Prof Elwood says is "consistent with an interpretation of pain experience". The same pain sensitivity is likely to be shared by lobsters, crabs and other crustaceans, the researchers believe.
Prof Elwood says that sensing pain is crucial even for the most lowly of animals because it allows them to change their behaviour after damaging experiences and so increase their chances of survival.
The claim will add weight to campaigns by animal rights organisations which protest against lobsters being boiled alive.
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There's much more to this article - if you want to read it click on the link above. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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All "sentient" beings feel pain ... duh ...
Not that i myself practise such things, but boiling the lobster slowly is said to be the way to go, yes?
Slooooooooooooowly puts them to sleep. |
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Masta_Don
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Hyehwa-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it a reaction or a consciouness decision? That's the problem. I somehow doubt lobsters are thinking, This isn't the way I wanted to go, as they're being boiled. Stimulation of the nerves happens at every level of life; even celery has been shown to have a rudimentary nervous system. Pain is the interpertation of that stimulation into good and bad (okay, just bad, but can't have bad without good), in which a higher level of cognitive processing is needed. I just don't think lobster have it. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Prof Elwood says that sensing pain is crucial even for the most lowly of animals because it allows them to change their behaviour after damaging experiences and so increase their chances of survival.
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Was it really necessary to do an experiment to find that out? |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Masta_Don wrote: |
| Is it a reaction or a consciouness decision? That's the problem. I somehow doubt lobsters are thinking, This isn't the way I wanted to go, as they're being boiled. Stimulation of the nerves happens at every level of life; 1) even celery has been shown to have a rudimentary nervous system. 2) Pain is the interpertation of that stimulation into good and bad (okay, just bad, but can't have bad without good), in which a higher level of cognitive processing is needed. I just don't think lobster have it. |
1. Wrong. It has none.
2. What makes you say this? If you got into an accident and sustained such a serious brain injury that you lost your ability to think about "pain," does that mean you wouldn't feel it? Should the hospital withhold painkillers, even if you were screaming and clutching at the afflicted area, because you couldn't talk or do math equations? I don't understand your argument at all. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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1) Anything animal we eat I'm sure feels pain at some point in its life as it grows to be tasty for us.
2) Oh well. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| We all kill for food. vegeterians kill too. Newsflash, plants are alive. Do lobsters feel pain? if you ever heard one scream when boiled, you would probably guess that they do. Nothing newsbreaking here. Now Im hungry for some boiled lobster. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| We all kill for food. vegeterians kill too. Newsflash, plants are alive. Do lobsters feel pain? if you ever heard one scream when boiled, you would probably guess that they do. Nothing newsbreaking here. Now Im hungry for some boiled lobster. |
Is it really a scream at all? Didn't know they had the capacity for any vocals at all. I thought it was just air escaping its shell as the tissue inside heats up. Anybody know for sure? I want to be able to properly justify my lobster consumption to others. (ok, I'm really just curious)
I do think pain and suffering should be avoided when possible. Everyone will draw that line in a different place however. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| [I noticed something. I don't always agree with Big Bird but she's one of the few women that has the balls to come to this forum and debate.] |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| ...boiling the lobster slowly is said to be the way to go, yes...? puts them to sleep. |
Correct. That is how I cook lobsters, in any case. |
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Dome Vans
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: |
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It is air escaping that makes the noise. Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly, surely they're dead after one second.
The most "humane' way is to put them in the freezer for a couple of hours so there functions slow. Then you chuck them in the pan. They feel less pain this way, because they are sleepy. Still not exactly a nice way to go.
I became a vegetarian after walking past a slaughter house in a town centre and hearing a pig screaming as it was killed. I was only 11 at the time. Goes right through you. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly... |
And this is hardly surprising as you are unimaginative.
Put your lobster in the water just as you turn on the fire. The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. By the time the water boils, we hope, the lobster is unconcsious and feels no pain. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| We all kill for food. vegeterians kill too. Newsflash, plants are alive. Do lobsters feel pain? if you ever heard one scream when boiled, you would probably guess that they do. Nothing newsbreaking here. Now Im hungry for some boiled lobster. |
Is it really a scream at all? |
Does it matter? Enjoy your lobster. |
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Dome Vans
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly... |
And this is hardly surprising as you are unimaginative.
Put your lobster in the water just as you turn on the fire. The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. By the time the water boils, we hope, the lobster is unconcsious and feels no pain. |
haha, very good. I think this is called cooking.
Boiling is a point. Is it not? Cooking a lobster slowly is the correct terminology. Sorry to use science here gopher. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly... |
And this is hardly surprising as you are unimaginative.
Put your lobster in the water just as you turn on the fire. The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. By the time the water boils, we hope, the lobster is unconcsious and feels no pain. |
Can't you pith the thing? Or bash its head with a hammer? |
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