Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mokpochica]

I would like input on a few topics: namely the gender division in classrooms and how it affects classroom atmosphere and management.

I'm a female teacher, teaching in a co-ed middle school. I find that my girls tend to be very attentive, studious, enthusiastic about activities, and listen quite well in the classroom. My boys are not so attentive or studious, sometimes are very (outwardly) enthusiastic--but usually only for competetive activities, and many do not often listen well or follow directions well.

I try to vary my activities so that students who excel in other disciplines can show their talents. I really try not to choose topics that are only applicable to one sex or the other.

My boys and girls never sit together or really interact with each other at all in class (probably not a surprise for those of you who teach in similar situations). They freak out if I try to make them work together on something ("Teacher, not after age 7!").

Now I think that my female students really like me and respond well to my kindness (and are really upset/affected if I scold them). I think the boys see my kindness as weakness, so I tend to scold them more and feel like I spend less time teaching them individually than I do disciplining them. I'm finding it hard to balance the two teaching personas I feel required to take with the students.

My girls have complained about how the boys are noisy in our class and in classes with other teachers. My boys often seem bored and unwilling to participate, which is truly frustrating since I take a lot of time to plan fun and useful activities.

On a side note, my first year boys seem to be a lot more innocent than my second year boys and listen and participate more actively. I've noticed that there is a big difference between 7th and 8th graders in the U.S., so maybe that's playing into the situation here too.

If anyone has ideas on how to bridge this gender division, deal with it, or just stories or empathy, I would appreciate them all!

[Ya-ta Boy]

"They" always say girls mature about 2 years faster than boys. I know it is just conventional wisdom, but I do think there is a lot to it. It may even explain why so often wives are 2 years younger than husbands. Added to that, girls (on average) do better with language skills than boys.

A personal anecdote: Another aspect that may be playing a role is sexual tension. I taught high school before coming here. All my classes were mixed until one semester, because of a special scheduling situation, I ended up with a class of all boys and a class of all girls. The difference in both classes was amazing to me. The boys especially were far better behaved than usual. Part way through the semester we discussed it. It was the opinion of several boys that the absence of girls meant they didn't have to do their macho posturing. They also expressed a dislike for co-ed PE.

[mokpochica]

I think what you said had a lot of truth yata boy. Today none of my boys even showed up to my second class--namely the ones that I had problems with yesterday. So perhaps motivation is a factor here too.

The class of all girls was great...the girls were actively participating and speaking out more than they usually do. Hmmm...I wonder how it would be if it were all boys and just me.

It seems really unfortunate to me that the classroom atmosphere is so affected by the coming together of girls and boys--that there is anxiety and annoyance as a result of the co-ed classroom.

I've also started to think that a few boys in that 2nd year class really affected the entire environment. Other boys, who might otherwise have been serious students, seemed to follow a few boys who led them away from working hard. When I think back, it seemed almost like a domino effect.

It's funny that you say that girls tend to be better at language. I have definitely noticed in the states that far more women than men populated my foreign language classes. However, in Korea I noticed that (with people in their 30's and 40s) there are far more men that will speak with me in English than women. Obviously shyness is playing a role here too--I think some older woman are totally incapable of speaking English because they never pushed themselves (or were pushed) to speak up. I guess this is another thing that is really affected by the environment in which a student learns a language.

Now the man/woman language thing seems to be turning around here. I definitely have more girls who speak with me outside of class than boys. Hmmm....

[bucheon bum]

I've only taught middle school students in a hogwon, but it has been my experience that middle school girls do not talk much. They are generally very shy. My male students seem much more comfortable speaking to me. In a way it is strange because my female elementary school students are generally very outgoing and as talkative (if not more so) than their male counterparts. It seems as though something about middle school shuts girls up.

And yes, girls always sit on one side of the classroom while guys sit on the other side; I can't remember seeing the two sexes sitting together.

[itchy]

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[some waygug-in]

Boys will be boys. That expression didn't just appear for no reason. In my classes, it's usually always the boys who act up and are disruptive. Not all boys are like this, but they tend to be more so than girls.

Just a side note, when I was in high school, there were too many students in my grade level for that year. It was a small town setting. So they decided to divide the grade into two classes. All through elementary school the classes were mixed, but when we reached grade 9 they decided to divide us into all boys/ all girls. The girls did very well in French, math and science. The boys were a disaster. I remember French class as being worse than anything I have ever experienced here.
Needless to say, I didn't learn much French.
During phys-ed classes, the boys tended to be even more macho than usual. In volleyball season, most of the class was spent trying to nail each other with a ball. Bullying was common.
Anyway, it's just a fact of life.
good luck
Some waygug-in

[mokpochica]

Did I trash boys? That certainly wasn't my intention. I feel that I don't have the same connection with the older boys in my classes that I do with the girls or even the 1st year boys. I'm fine with the majority of these boys outside of class, but in class, even in 'doing' activities, many of them are not focusing.

Anyway, after seeing what you wrote about women living off men,

"and it seems that girls and women spend most of their adult lives in situations in which they are actively living off of the work of men (either as employees or as wives). Again, you see the men learning by doing, and the women learning by watching coming into effect"

I can see you're the type of person I have to agree to disagree with. I would like to be a more effective teacher for all my students, including these boys, but your comments weren't the most helpful.

[itchy]

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[some waygug-in]

Hi Itchy. You have every right to disagree with my post. But be sure that you disagree for the right reasons. I never said all boys are disasters. I said the "all boys classes" at my school were a disaster. The boys there didn't learn much in French, science and phys-ed classes, while the girls did relatively well. In co-ed classes, the boys did better and the girls did about the same.
Since you didn't attend my school during those particuar classes I don't see the logic in your disagreement.

Just from my own teaching experience, I have found all boys classes to be the most difficult to teach. Having some girls in the class brings stability. At least some students will be paying attention.
I am not saying boys are less intelligent. I am saying they are much more problematic to teach at that age. (12 - 16 or so)
Anyway, I just had to clarify what I was trying to say.
Cheers

[itchy]

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[Zyzyfer]

[some waygug-in]

I don't disagree with what you say, in general. I noticed that your post comes from Toronto. Have you ever taught in a Korean hagwan situation?
I'm just curious. No, I am not a real teacher, and I am the first to admit that I am not a good kids teacher. I was just making some observations that I have noticed. If the problem is just me, then there must be an awful lot of people like me with the same problem. So far, every teacher I've talked to about this says the same thing. (face to face that is) They agree with me.
I didn't say all boys are bad and all girls are good. Indeed, some of my female students are worse than any of the boys, but my point was that the all boys classroom makes for a more difficult dynamic in the classroom. It was that way in my highschool days, and so far every teacher I've talked to about this except you agrees with me.
Perhaps I just haven't talked to enough teachers?
Anyway,
Good luck to you
and peace.
some waygug-in

[itchy]

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[keguri]

[mokpochica]

I ended up having a class of all boys today because none of my girls showed up. I was a little surprised at how attentive they were, although they did need to be reminded to stay on task a few times. This is a class of younger boys and they usually respond to me quite well, but today was better than usual.

As I mentioned before, I tend to have problems with the older and not younger boys. I was talking to another teacher today about my schedule--I just have 7th and 8th graders during this new semester and I'm quite pleased with it. This (male) math teacher said that was good and that 3rd year students are difficult to teach for him. Since our school is co-ed, I'm think he was probably referring to both sexes.

I have a teacher pen-pal in Germany who I have talked about this topic before with. He told me that a lot of Turkish students came into his German school about 10 years back and when they came the female teachers really had a lot of problems with the boys not respecting them or wanting to listen to them because of how women were perceived in those particular boys' culture and households. He also wrote me about the change between all boys/all girls to co-ed schoools in Germany and how that was a challenge for him and other teachers. I thought that it was funny when he said that teachers often gave too much leeway to the 'new sex' students they were teaching because they weren't used to them and just thought they were cute.

Obviously what goes on in the classroom and causes behavioral and other problems is very complicated and not just gender/sex-based (and I never meant to imply it was). For one thing, most of my classes are comprised of 40 students (now it will be 35). However, I definitely feel that the above is a factor in any society where men and women are not perceived as equal partners with equal potential and capabilities.