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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| Using my example of the North American Union, it seems I would have more influence joining the Council on Foriegn Relations. remember it is this non-governmental organization that is leading the 'project'. |
Is there anything wrong, in principle, with a "United States of North America" a la the EU? |
In principle, there may or may not be anything wrong. That is not the point of the OP.
The point is that it is being organized by non-governmental organizations that have stated secrecy is necessary.
In my opinion, this undermines democracy. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
In principle, there may or may not be anything wrong. That is not the point of the OP.
The point is that it is being organized by non-governmental organizations that have stated secrecy is necessary.
In my opinion, this undermines democracy. |
I would imagine congress gets to debate it, right? You do realize a lot of legislation is not written by politicians but by special interest groups? They give the bill ("sample legislation") they'd like enacted to a congressman, he might makes some changes, congress might make some changes, but lots of things that become laws, right down to the wording of the law, were first cooked up by private organizations with no democratic input. And hell, how many congressmen actually read the PATRIOT act in full before voting on it? Before one starts frettin' about elite organizations, you should start sending politicians to government that actually read and debate the laws they're passing.
Someone has to plan the frame work. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The point is that it is being organized by non-governmental organizations that have stated secrecy is necessary.
In my opinion, this undermines democracy. |
How many thousands of lobbiest groups are there in Washington? All of them pressure the government to do one thing or another. It doesn't matter which side of an issue any of them are on, there is always at least one other on the other side pressuring Congress to vote the opposite.
loose_ends writes as if he thinks only the Council on Foreign Relations has any influence. I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Tri-Lateral Commission, the other bugaboo of the Far Right.
BTW, you don't come from a democracy. You come from a democratic republic. You really should study some basic polisci and find out the difference. You would be less susceptible to the ravings of the paranoid Far Right if you did. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Is there anything wrong, in principle, with a "United States of North America" a la the EU? |
For nationalists, yes.
Globalists could care less, just so long as their Luciferian world agenda is pursued, propagated & implemented.
What's wrong with national sovereignty?
JFK SAYS IT ALL 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exv6ZR8McsM |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
In principle, there may or may not be anything wrong. That is not the point of the OP.
The point is that it is being organized by non-governmental organizations that have stated secrecy is necessary.
In my opinion, this undermines democracy. |
I would imagine congress gets to debate it, right? You do realize a lot of legislation is not written by politicians but by special interest groups? They give the bill ("sample legislation") they'd like enacted to a congressman, he might makes some changes, congress might make some changes, but lots of things that become laws, right down to the wording of the law, were first cooked up by private organizations with no democratic input. And hell, how many congressmen actually read the PATRIOT act in full before voting on it? Before one starts frettin' about elite organizations, you should start sending politicians to government that actually read and debate the laws they're passing.
Someone has to plan the frame work. |
you are spot on with the above. in theory, the demorcatic process is great.
i think i am most concerned about the lack of coverage the North American Act has recieved.
i am pretty sure the average north american has never even heard of it.
My main concern is:
If one isn't aware, then it is difficult to make educated decisions when voting for politicians.
I think it would be a very real possibility for someone to vote for a politician that then passes a bill that the voter is strongly against, and wasn't aware of when voting.
if we assume that the quotes i posted are not taken out of context, do you think secrecy is necessary? Or do you think it is harmful?
and back to your question. do you think a north american act is a good idea? |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
The point is that it is being organized by non-governmental organizations that have stated secrecy is necessary.
In my opinion, this undermines democracy. |
How many thousands of lobbiest groups are there in Washington? All of them pressure the government to do one thing or another. It doesn't matter which side of an issue any of them are on, there is always at least one other on the other side pressuring Congress to vote the opposite.
loose_ends writes as if he thinks only the Council on Foreign Relations has any influence. I'm surprised he hasn't brought up the Tri-Lateral Commission, the other bugaboo of the Far Right.
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you make a valid point. however, the point of the OP was secrecy and its effects in such a system. it leaves the common man ignorant of certain things. in my opinion, the north american act is something that the common man should not be ignorant of. i'm not suggesting a union would be good or bad, just that it is an important issue that should be commonly known.
i am aware of other organizations, however i used the north american act as an example. one thing at a time.
peep this
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Globalists could care less, just so long as their Luciferian world agenda is pursued, propagated & implemented. |
Luciferians now? I thought it was space aliens. I don't suppose you have evidence to back that claim up? Thought not. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Globalists could care less, just so long as their Luciferian world agenda is pursued, propagated & implemented. |
Luciferians now? I thought it was space aliens. I don't suppose you have evidence to back that claim up? Thought not. |
Of course there is no evidence! The gov't keeps it from us!
You see, the gov't has lots of secrets, but we don't know what they are, because the gov't is keeping their secrets secret. More reason to suspect the gov't! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
i think i am most concerned about the lack of coverage the North American Act has recieved.
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Define "lack of coverage". Because if I do a google news search (which only searches legit news feeds) on "North American Union", I get lots of media coverage.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1024conspiracy1024.html |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Globalists could care less, just so long as their Luciferian world agenda is pursued, propagated & implemented. |
Luciferians now? I thought it was space aliens. I don't suppose you have evidence to back that claim up? Thought not. |
Of course there is no evidence! The gov't keeps it from us!
You see, the gov't has lots of secrets, but we don't know what they are, because the gov't is keeping their secrets secret. More reason to suspect the gov't! |
That there is no evidence of witchcraft is only proof of witchcraft. For only a witch could make the evidence of witchcraft disappear!
IGTG lives in a bizarre world. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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before or after the signing? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Democracy flourishes when secrets are kept? |
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| loose_ends wrote: |
Consider this quote
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"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets, and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."
-- Katherine Graham, Washington Post publisher and Bilderberger |
and now this one
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"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller, Baden-Baden, Germany 1991 |
What are the thoughts of the intellectual elite of Dave's? |
Look who was a conspiracy theorist:
"For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on gorillas by night instead of armies by day.
I am asking your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people."
- John F Kennedy on 27 April 1961 warning of secret societies |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| John F Kennedy on 27 April 1961 warning of secret societies |
Urmmm, the 'secret society' he was referring to was the Communist Party.
Of course, there were those on the Nutty Right who said the International Jewish Bankers branch of the Illuminati Space Alien Invasion Force under the command of the Knights Templar was behind the Communist Party.
That theory got less attention than it should have (I do think they were on to something) because it just didn't fit onto a bumper sticker and you can't have a good Right Wing theory without a snazzy bumper sticker. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| John F Kennedy on 27 April 1961 warning of secret societies |
Urmmm, the 'secret society' he was referring to was the Communist Party.
Of course, there were those on the Nutty Right who said the International Jewish Bankers branch of the Illuminati Space Alien Invasion Force under the command of the Knights Templar was behind the Communist Party.
That theory got less attention than it should have (I do think they were on to something) because it just didn't fit onto a bumper sticker and you can't have a good Right Wing theory without a snazzy bumper sticker. |
Yeah check out who uses that mined quote:
http://www.watchlocalvideos.com/watch-205394.htm
Google on that quote and about 3/4 of the links are from anti-Jewish conspiracy nuts.
Oddly, they never show the quote in context. (See what I mean about quotes need to be shown in context, loose_ends?) |
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