|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Dome Vans
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly... |
And this is hardly surprising as you are unimaginative.
Put your lobster in the water just as you turn on the fire. The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. By the time the water boils, we hope, the lobster is unconcsious and feels no pain. |
Can't you pith the thing? Or bash its head with a hammer? |
Me or the Lobster? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Can't really see how you can boil lobsters slowly... |
And this is hardly surprising as you are unimaginative.
Put your lobster in the water just as you turn on the fire. The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. By the time the water boils, we hope, the lobster is unconcsious and feels no pain. |
Can't you pith the thing? Or bash its head with a hammer? |
Me or the Lobster? |
<grins>  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Personally i always thought it was cruel they way chefs just knife the lobster behind the eyes and cut it right open, poor thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Vegetarianism is truly a disorder, especially if it's done for the sake of not hurting animals.
I'm thinking about creating a vegetarian rehabilitation camp.
The camp would be quite simple. You'd basically be locked up in a dungeon type of room with concrete floors and walls, unable to leave.
There would be three things left in the room. Almost like the Saw movies. You'd have a large knife, maybe a gun, a big rock, a fork and steak knife, a pan, some kerosene and charcoal, and a lighter. You'd also have a chicken, a lobster, and some other small animals. There would be a small rusty metal bucket of water on the floor that you and the animals could access to drink from, but that wouldn't be refilled.
You would not be allowed to leave until you eat something. There would be nothing else given to you. You'd have a choice of eating an animal or starving to death right alongside them.
It would be a choice of being humane. Would it be wrong to kill an animal but then make all the animals die with you from starvation? Or would it be wrong to kill one, cook it, and eat it so the rest of you could get out and stay alive? Perhaps the smell of feces and animals pecking at or nibbling you would irritate you to the point that you would kill them out of anger. They might also drink all your water, which would also make you angry to the point of hysteria.
It would truly represent the instinct of man to kill for survival. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The water gets warm and, theoretically, puts the lobster to sleep long before it begins to boil. |
That's priceless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow. I go both ways on this one.
On the one hand, I support vegetarianism, for reasons moral or healthwise. I'm largely a vegetarian myself, although since I suffer from hypoglycemia and am mildly allergic to soy products, it is not easy. Occasionally, I will eat meat, but usually once, never more than twice in a week. If I want to eat out, its hard to resist ordering meat. And if one of my friends picks where we eat, sometimes there's not anything remotely appetizing thats vegetarian.
On the other hand, lobsters are crustaceans. Crustaceans are giant insects with shells. Also, I used to live in Maine and in Maryland, so the idea of Americans eating less lobster or crab distresses me more. The meat from such crustaceans is about some of the healthiest (least unhealthy?) meat you can eat. Since I'm largely a vegetarian for health reasons, I refuse to give up entirely any meat that is both A) delicious and B) healthy.
Last note: The best way to make the transition from being a regular meat-eater (i.e., one who eats meat everyday), is to become a pescatarian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| That's priceless. |
Thanks.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| djsmnc wrote: |
Vegetarianism is truly a disorder, especially if it's done for the sake of not hurting animals.
I'm thinking about creating a vegetarian rehabilitation camp.
The camp would be quite simple. You'd basically be locked up in a dungeon type of room with concrete floors and walls, unable to leave.
There would be three things left in the room. Almost like the Saw movies. You'd have a large knife, maybe a gun, a big rock, a fork and steak knife, a pan, some kerosene and charcoal, and a lighter. You'd also have a chicken, a lobster, and some other small animals. There would be a small rusty metal bucket of water on the floor that you and the animals could access to drink from, but that wouldn't be refilled.
You would not be allowed to leave until you eat something. There would be nothing else given to you. You'd have a choice of eating an animal or starving to death right alongside them.
It would be a choice of being humane. Would it be wrong to kill an animal but then make all the animals die with you from starvation? Or would it be wrong to kill one, cook it, and eat it so the rest of you could get out and stay alive? Perhaps the smell of feces and animals pecking at or nibbling you would irritate you to the point that you would kill them out of anger. They might also drink all your water, which would also make you angry to the point of hysteria.
It would truly represent the instinct of man to kill for survival. |
Nice straw man you have created. Of course anyone would kill the animals to survive. But when put back into the real world they would again go back to eating whatever they choose to eat. Oh, the horror!
I used to feel such hostility toward vegetarians as well. I understand the hostility though if you've met some preachy, militant types of vegetarians. I think one way vegetarians create tension just by their existence is when people who choose to eat meat see a vegetarian, they think subconsiously..."This person's not eating meat..why? Is there a problem with meat? I must justify my choice to eat it." No, you don't have to justify anything, and neither does the vegetarian, they are both just choices.
One thing that can be annoying with some people is the notion that they are somehow more manly or strong just by the fact that they choose to buy and eat meat. C'mon man, you didn't hunt it down and kill it, you bought it dead and pre-packaged.
Anway, lobster falls into a moral grey area even if proven to feel pain (which of course they do as pain is a form of stimuli) as they are not emotional creatures, etc. and are not really "cute" (one of the most damning qualities for animals as far as humans are concerned.) ... not to mention they taste great with butter sauce! Sorry lobster, you lose. Plus, me stronger than wimpy lobster...grrr! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
| I used to feel such hostility toward vegetarians as well. I understand the hostility though if you've met some preachy, militant types of vegetarians. I think one way vegetarians create tension just by their existence is when people who choose to eat see a vegetarian, they think subconsiously..."This person's not eating meat..why? Is there a problem with meat? I must justify my choice to eat it." No, you don't have to justify anything, and neither does the vegetarian, they are both just choices. |
That's a rather interesting post. As a vegetarian I've never lectured anyone on what they eat, and don't even discuss it unless I'm asked to explain my choice to a curious acquaintance. Yet from time to time I've had to deal with this mystifying hostility from some meateaters, who seem somehow very offended by my dietary choice. Bizarre. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| That's a rather interesting post. As a vegetarian I've never lectured anyone on what they eat, and don't even discuss it unless I'm asked to explain my choice to a curious acquaintance. Yet from time to time I've had to deal with this mystifying hostility from some meateaters, who seem somehow very offended by my dietary choice. Bizarre. |
I've been lectured by vegetarians who are offended by my dietary choice. Equally bizarre.
I don't dislike vegetarianism, but those lecturers are pretty much the equivalent of the crazy Jesus guys on the subways.
And as to the topic at hand, anthropomorphizing seems to be the main reason to believe that lobsters feel pain. With a mash of ganglia operating as a brain they are pretty much guaranteed to be act/react critters, not underwater philosophers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dome Vans
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| That's priceless. |
Thanks. |
Priceless rubbish. 
| Quote: |
Various methods of relaxation techniques were carried out prior to boiling and the lowest number of tail flicks upon insertion into the boiling water was thought to mean that the lobster felt less pain.
It was found that the best way to minimize the tail movements of the lobster upon boiling is by placing the lobster in the freezer for a period of 5 - 10 minutes in order to numb the lobster before cooking. |
http://www.helpwithcooking.com/seafood-shellfish/how-to-cook-lobster.html
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/cookery/in/lobster/index.htm
| Quote: |
Placing Lobsters in Cold Water That Is Gradually Heated
Many people believe that placing lobsters in cold water that is slowly brought to a boil causes the lobsters to lose consciousness before the water becomes uncomfortably hot. But lobsters killed by this method do struggle to escape as the water becomes hotter - for five to seven minutes. J.R. Baker decided to prove the obvious and tortured some animals in the name of science. He explained that as you would expect, as the temperature of the water rises, lobsters begin "shaking" and "trembling," and their entire bodies start to convulse. |
http://www.lobsterlib.com/canYouKill.html
Still, always had you down as bit of a sadist Gopher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, PETA propaganda. Never seen that before. And would never have expected you to seek confirmation of your worldviews there, Dome Head.
Thanks.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dome Vans
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
Oh, PETA propaganda. Never seen that before. And would never have expected you to seek confirmation of your worldviews there, Dome Head.
Thanks. |
Regardless of PETA, Gopher darling, are you dispelling science again? What was it again cooking or boiling? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
| djsmnc wrote: |
Vegetarianism is truly a disorder, especially if it's done for the sake of not hurting animals.
I'm thinking about creating a vegetarian rehabilitation camp.
The camp would be quite simple. You'd basically be locked up in a dungeon type of room with concrete floors and walls, unable to leave.
There would be three things left in the room. Almost like the Saw movies. You'd have a large knife, maybe a gun, a big rock, a fork and steak knife, a pan, some kerosene and charcoal, and a lighter. You'd also have a chicken, a lobster, and some other small animals. There would be a small rusty metal bucket of water on the floor that you and the animals could access to drink from, but that wouldn't be refilled.
You would not be allowed to leave until you eat something. There would be nothing else given to you. You'd have a choice of eating an animal or starving to death right alongside them.
It would be a choice of being humane. Would it be wrong to kill an animal but then make all the animals die with you from starvation? Or would it be wrong to kill one, cook it, and eat it so the rest of you could get out and stay alive? Perhaps the smell of feces and animals pecking at or nibbling you would irritate you to the point that you would kill them out of anger. They might also drink all your water, which would also make you angry to the point of hysteria.
It would truly represent the instinct of man to kill for survival. |
Nice straw man you have created. Of course anyone would kill the animals to survive. But when put back into the real world they would again go back to eating whatever they choose to eat. Oh, the horror!
I used to feel such hostility toward vegetarians as well. I understand the hostility though if you've met some preachy, militant types of vegetarians. I think one way vegetarians create tension just by their existence is when people who choose to eat meat see a vegetarian, they think subconsiously..."This person's not eating meat..why? Is there a problem with meat? I must justify my choice to eat it." No, you don't have to justify anything, and neither does the vegetarian, they are both just choices.
|
I agree, actually, and I don't really think it's a disorder to be vegetarian. Militant anything is almost like a disorder, but it's good to be firm in your principles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Oh, PETA propaganda. Never seen that before. And would never have expected you to seek confirmation of your worldviews there, Dome Head.
Thanks. |
Regardless of PETA, Gopher darling, are you dispelling science again? What was it again cooking or boiling? |
Science? That website? Usually I regard CREDIBLE science reports as those published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal...not a partisan website. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
