Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rteacher]

Why think in linear terms - that there is just one creation and final end point? That's a Judeo-Christian concept which still largely influences the thinking of many modern scientists.

Those who try to scientifically prove that life evolved from chemicals have no problem assuming that matter was pre-existing.

It's at least as logical to assume that an all-inclusive intelligent being has always existed as the Absolute Truth from whom (or from which) everything emanates.

In Vedic terms, Vishnu is an expansion of Krishna, whose eternal form is completely full of bliss and knowledge.

Because in our material experience forms are limited and often sources of pain and ignorance we tend to think that ultimate reality must be the negation of personal form. Most brilliant scientists - like Einstein - have an impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth as a formless intelligent spirit.

However, the highest realization of God is as the greatest person - the infinite eternal person who is maintaining all other finite eternal persons, who are expansions of his various energies ...

When such minute particles of God somehow desire to enjoy independently from the source of all pleasure, arrangement is made for the creation of the material universes.

Krishna expands as MahaVishnu and lies down in the Causal Ocean in mystic slumber. (Whatever God dreams becomes reality...)

From his bodily pores, innumerable universes are breathed out (and eventually inhaled back in ...)

By another Vishnu expansion, each universe is entered, and the first created being, Brahma, is manifest and empowered with all knowledge necessary for engineering and populating the universe.

Simply by Vishnu's glance, the material nature is impregnated with the seeds of innumerable living entities (constituting only one-forth the total creation as most souls harmoniously live in the spiritual universes forever free of birth and death...)

Another Vishnu expansion resides in mystic slumber on the pole star and is reflected within the heart of all living beings as the Supersoul monitoring the thoughts and activities of each individual soul in the material world of duality and relativity.

This world serves as a sort of prison house for the spiritual universes and is seen as a dark cloud in the self-effulgent spiritual sky.

When we individual souls finally realize that true happiness is not attainable in this illusory material atmosphere, we need only sincerely desire to go back home to our real identities in the spiritual abode.

In this cosmic age (which began about 5000 years ago) it's recommended to chant transcendental names of God just like a helpless child calling out for its mother...

Here's a pictorial representation:

[mindmetoo]

[igotthisguitar]

[RACETRAITOR]

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Those who have assumed only some matter as pre-existing have been remarkably unsuccessful in arriving at a viable theory of how life evolved from matter.

Until they can demonstrate that they can actually create life (without using already living organisms) it can be assumed that that what they have posited as pre-existing is not sufficient to explain the origin of conscious life (and even such a demostration would involve the manipulation of matter by conscious spirit - a better test would be to revive a dead body to its previous consciousness by supplying whatever combination of chemicals is now missing...)

There are basic material causes, but without the ultimate divine cause there can be no effective creation of life.

Although they are still mightily trying, I predict that reasonable scientists will eventually conclude that matter (the inferior energy of God) cannot be transformed into life without being intelligently guided by conscious spirit (the superior energy of God.)

Every material body takes some kind of birth, remains for some time, produces some effects (or by-products) dwindles, then vanishes to oblivion.

By contrast, the spirit (the conscious life force) stays the same - without any of those changes, including birth and death.

Because an individual spirit-soul takes on a material body, the body appears to take birth, etc. Actually the material body is always dead - it's only animated due to the presence of the soul (which is present in all living beings...)
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Asitis5.html[/url]

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Faith can be placed in material logic or in something more sublime. You evidently think that the current version of "scientific method" is the best way to discover truth of origins. I think that there are other methods and approaches that are more conducive to understanding higher truth.

You may be satisfied with relative truths and materialism - that's as high as your science can reach.

I think that material nature can never really be conquered - only transcended. Thus a transcendental science is ultimately required to reach the highest goal of getting out of this world full of misery.

If the Vedic world view is correct, we're all trapped in a cycle of repeated births and deaths according to our karma and desires. At some point one should get tired of suffering...

Placing an inordinate amount of faith in materialistic science, which has enabled mass killing of humans and so many other species at alarming rates, is probably a big mistake.

At this point, many people would rather hear from intelligent aliens on how to live more harmoniously with other lifeforms ...

(Hey rambling statements aimed at understanding complete truth (as presented by spiritual authorities) trump coherent half-truths based on imperfect empiric speculation and mundane logic...)

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Science doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's always been grounded in one philosophy or another. For a long time it's philosophical assumptions were grounded in Christian theology.

Darwinian theory helped shift that paradigm to a philosophy grounded in pure materialism.

I think that science - whose technological applications are much more ominously powerful than any metric ruler - needs to be grounded in a philosophy that truly respects all life - not viewing all other lifeforms (and certain classes of people) as expendable.

Due to materialistic reductionism, the concept of not killing living beings unnecessarily has not been a guiding principle of modern scientific advancement.

The Vedic idea is that the more that humans try to exploit and conquer nature for material gain, the more we get entangled in her complexities.

So-called material solutions always tend to generate more disturbing problems that plague the environment as a whole.

One of the recurring themes of alleged alien contacts is their warning us about our misuse of science - especially nuclear technology.

Even famous Arctic explorer Admiral Byrd (in his alleged "Secret Diary") related amazing accounts of contacting an alien species living within the "hollow earth" passageway he stumbled upon at the polar region:


...From this point I write all the following events here from memory. It defies the imagination and would seem all but madness if it had not happened.

The radioman and I are taken from the aircraft and we are re ceived in a most cordial manner. We were then boarded on a small platform-like conveyance with no wheels! It moves us toward the glowing city with great swiftness. As we approach, the city seems to be made of a crystal material. Soon we arrive at a large building that is a type I have never seen before. It appears to be right out of the design board of Frank Lloyd Wright, or perhaps more correctly, out of a Buck Rogers setting!! We are given some type of warm beverage which tasted like nothing I have ever savored before. It is delicious. After about ten minutes, two of our wondrous appearing hosts come to our quarters and announce that I am to accompany them. I have no choice but to comply. I leave my radioman behind and we walk a short dis tance and enter into what seems to be an elevator. We descend downward for some moments, the machine stops, and the door lifts silently upward! We then proceed down a long hallway that is lit by a rose-colored light that seems to be emanating from the very walls themselves! One of the beings motions for us to stop before a great door. Over the door is an inscription that I cannot read. The great door slides noiselessly open and I am beckoned to enter. One of my hosts speaks. 'Have no fear, Admiral, you are to have an audience with the Master...'

I step inside and my eyes adjust to the beautiful coloration that seems to be filling the room completely. Then I begin to see my sur roundings. What greeted my eyes is the most beautiful sight of my entire existence. It is in fact too beautiful and wondrous to describe. It is exquisite and delicate. I do not think there exists a human term that can describe it in any detail with justice! My thoughts are interrupted in a cordial manner by a warm rich voice of melodious quality, 'I bid you welcome to our domain, Admiral.' I see a man with delicate features and with the etching of years upon his face. He is seated at a long table. He motions me to sit down in one of the chairs. After I am seated, he places his fingertips together and smiles. He speaks softly again, and conveys the following.

'We have let you enter here because you are of noble character and well-known on the Surface World, Admiral.' Surface World, I half-gasp under my breath! 'Yes," the Master replies with a smile, 'you are in the domain of the Arianni, the Inner World of the Earth. We shall not long delay your mission, and you will be safely escorted back to the surface and for a distance beyond. But now, Admiral, I shall tell you why you have been summoned here. Our interest rightly begins just after your race exploded the first atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. It was at that alarm ing time we sent our flying machines, the "Flugelrads", to your surface world to investigate what your race had done. That is, of course, past history now, my dear Admiral, but I must continue on. You see, we have never interfered before in your race's wars, and barbarity, but now we must, for you have learned to tamper with a certain power that is not for man, namely, that of atomic energy. Our emissaries have already delivered messages to the powers of your world, and yet they do not heed. Now you have been chosen to be witness here that our world does exist. You see, our Culture and Science is many thousands of years beyond your race, Admiral.' I interrupted, 'But what does this have to do with me, Sir?'

The Master's eyes seemed to penetrate deeply into my mind, and after studying me for a few moments he replied, 'Your race has now reached the point of no return, for there are those among you who would destroy your very world rather than relinquish their power as they know it...' I nodded, and the Master continued, 'In 1945 and afterward, we tried to contact your race, but our efforts were met with hostility, our Flugelrads were fired upon. Yes, even pursued with malice and animosity by your fighter planes. So, now, I say to you, my son, there is a great storm gathering in your world, a black fury that will not spend itself for many years. There will be no answer in your arms, there will be no safety in your science. It may rage on until every flower of your culture is trampled, and all human things are leveled in vast chaos. Your recent war was only a prelude of what is yet to come for your race. We here see it more clearly with each hour..do you say I am mistaken?'

'No,' I answer, 'it happened once before, the dark ages came and they lasted for more than five hundred years.'

'Yes, my son,' replied the Master, 'the dark ages that will come now for your race will cover the Earth like a pall, but I believe that some of your race will live through the storm, beyond that, I cannot say. We see at a great distance a new world stirring from the ruins of your race, seeking its lost and legendary treasures, and they will be here, my son, safe in our keeping. When that time arrives, we shall come forward again to help revive your culture and your race. Perhaps, by then, you will have learned the futility of war and its strife...and after that time, certain of your culture and science will be returned for your race to begin anew. You, my son, are to return to the Surface World with this message.....'

With these closing words, our meeting seemed at an end. I stood for a moment as in a dream....but, yet, I knew this was reality, and for some strange reason I bowed slightly, either out of respect or humility, I do not know which...


http://www.ufodigest.com/byrd.html

Look, we gotta at least stop messing with their Flugelrads!

[igotthisguitar]

The Mahabharata speaks of Vimanas does it not?

Other Vedic literature as well, yes?

What's a VIMANA?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana

[Rteacher]

Dang, I was just getting interested in Flugalrads!

Anyway, I think this guy gives a pretty authorative account of vimanas in Vedic literature:

...In the course of time, there were three basic types of vimanas. In Treta-yuga, men were adept in mantras or potent hymns. Thus, the vimanas of that age were powered by means of knowledge of mantras. In Dvapara-yuga, men had developed considerable knowledge of tantra, or ritual. Thus, the vimanas of Dvapara-yuga were powered by the use of tantric knowledge. In Kali-yuga, knowledge of both mantra and tantra are deficient. Thus, the vimanas of this age are known as kritaka, artificial or mechanical. In this way, there are three main types of vimanas, Vedic airplanes, according to the characteristics of each yuga.

Of these three types, there is listed 25 variations of the mantrika vimanas, 56 variations of the tantrica vimanas, and 25 varieties of the kritakaah vimanas as we find today in Kali-yuga. However, in regard to the shape and construction, there is no difference between any of these vimanas, but only in how they were powered or propelled, which would be by mantras, tantras, or mechanical engines.

The controversial text known as Vimaanika Shastra, said to be by Maharshi Bharadwaja, also describes in detail the construction of what is called the mercury vortex engine. This is no doubt of the same nature as the Vedic Ion engine that is propelled by the use of mercury. Such an engine was built by Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, based on descriptions in the Rig-veda, which he demonstrated in Mumbai (Bombay), India in 1895. I more fully explained this in Chapter Three of this volume. Additional information on the mercury engines used in the vimanas can be found in the ancient Vedic text called the Samarangana Sutradhara. This text also devotes 230 verses to the use of these machines in peace and war. We will not provide the whole description of the mercury vortex engine here, but we will include a short part of William Clendenon's translation of the Samarangana Sutradhara from his 1990 book, Mercury, UFO Messenger of the Gods:

"Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its electric/ultrasonic mercury boiler at the bottom center. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky in a most marvelous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When those have been heated by controlled fire from iron containers, the vimana develops thunder-power through the mercury. At once it becomes like a pearl in the sky."

This provides a most simplistic idea of the potential of the mercury engines. This is one kind of a propulsion mechanism that the vimanas of Kali-yuga may use. Other variations are also described. Not only do these texts contain directions on how to make such engines, but they also have been found to contain flight manuals, aerial routes, procedures for normal and forced landings, instructions regarding the condition of the pilots, clothes to wear while flying, the food to bring and eat, spare parts to have, metals of which the craft needs to be made, power supplies, and so on. Other texts also provide instructions on avoiding enemy craft, how to see and hear what occupants are saying in enemy craft, how to become invisible, and even what tactics to use in case of collisions with birds. Some of these vimanas not only fly in the sky, but can also maneuver on land and fly into the sea and travel under water.

There are many ancient Vedic texts that describe or contain references to these vimanas, including the Ramayana, Mahabharata, Rig-veda, Yajur-veda, Atharva-veda, the Yuktilkalpataru of Bhoja (12th century A.D.), the Mayamatam (attributed to the architect Maya), plus other classic Vedic texts like the Satapathya Brahmana, Markandeya Purana, Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata Purana, the Harivamsa, the Uttararamcarita, the Harsacarita, the Tamil text Jivakacintamani, and others. From the various descriptions in these writings, we find vimanas in many different shapes, including that of long cigars, blimp-like, saucer-shapes, triangular, and even double-decked with portholes and a dome on top of a circular craft. Some are silent, some belch fire and make noise, some have a humming noise, and some disappear completely.

These various descriptions are not unlike the reports of UFOs that are seen today. In fact, David Childress, in his book Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India & Atlantis, provides many reports, both recent and from the last few hundred years, that describe eye witness accounts of encounters with UFOs that are no different in size and shape than those described in these ancient Vedic texts. Plus, when the pilots are seen close up, either fixing their craft or stepping outside to look around, they are human-like, sometimes with a Oriental appearance, in clothes that are relatively modern in style. In other reports, we have read where the craft may have alien type beings on board along with ordinary humans navigating the craft...
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/ufos_and_vimanas.htm

[mindmetoo]

[Rteacher]

Well, you seem to believe in condescension as much as you do in evolution...

I'm open-minded about there being a "hollow earth". (I saw "Journey to the Center of the Earth" as a kid ...)

If this "secret diary" of Admiral Byrd is legit (a big if...) then there's some reason to believe that it may be true (unless he hallucinated it ...)

I don't think that he could have written this coherent log if it were just an hallucination, though:


Admiral Richard B. Byrd's, Diary Feb. Mar. 1947

(The Land Beyond The Poles )

Exploration flight over the North Pole ( The Inner Earth My Secret Diary )

I must write this diary in secrecy and obscurity. It concerns my Arctic flight of the nineteenth day of February in the year of Nineteen and Forty Seven.

There comes a time when the rationality of men must fade into insignificance and one must accept the inevitability of the Truth! I am not at liberty to disclose the following documentation at this writing ...perhaps it shall never see the light of public scrutiny, but I must do my duty and record here for all to read one day. In a world of greed and exploitation of certain of mankind can no longer suppress that which is truth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FLIGHT LOG: BASE CAMP ARCTIC, 2/19/1947


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


0600 Hours- All preparations are complete for our flight northward and we are airborne with full fuel tanks at 0610 Hours.


0620 Hours- fuel mixture on starboard engine seems too rich, adjustment made and Pratt Whittneys are running smoothly.


0730 Hours- Radio Check with base camp. All is well and radio reception is normal.


0740 Hours- Note slight oil leak in starboard engine, oil pressure indicator seems normal, however.


0800 Hours- Slight turbulence noted from easterly direction at altitude of 2321 feet, correction to 1700 feet, no further turbulence, but tail wind increases, slight adjustment in throttle controls, aircraft performing very well now.


0815 Hours- Radio Check with base camp, situation normal.


0830 Hours- Turbulence encountered again, increase altitude to 2900 feet, smooth flight conditions again.


0910 Hours- Vast Ice and snow below, note coloration of yellowish nature, and disperse in a linear pattern. Altering course foe a better examination of this color pattern below, note reddish or purple color also. Circle this area two full turns and return to assigned compass heading. Position check made again to base camp, and relay information concerning colorations in the Ice and snow below.


0910 Hours- Both Magnetic and Gyro compasses beginning to gyrate and wobble, we are unable to hold our heading by instrumentation. Take bearing with Sun compass, yet all seems well. The controls are seemingly slow to respond and have sluggish quality, but there is no indication of Icing!


0915 Hours- In the distance is what appears to be mountains.


0949 Hours- 29 minutes elapsed flight time from the first sighting of the mountains, it is no illusion. They are mountains and consisting of a small range that I have never seen before!


0955 Hours- Altitude change to 2950 feet, encountering strong turbulence again.


1000 Hours- We are crossing over the small mountain range and still proceeding northward as best as can be ascertained. Beyond the mountain range is what appears to be a valley with a small river or stream running through the center portion. There should be no green valley below! Something is definitely wrong and abnormal here! We should be over Ice and Snow! To the portside are great forests growing on the mountain slopes. Our navigation Instruments are still spinning, the gyroscope is oscillating back and forth!


1005 Hours- I alter altitude to 1400 feet and execute a sharp left turn to better examine the valley below. It is green with either moss or a type of tight knit grass. The Light here seems different. I cannot see the Sun anymore. We make another left turn and we spot what seems to be a large animal of some kind below us. It appears to be an elephant! NO!!! It looks more like a mammoth! This is incredible! Yet, there it is! Decrease altitude to 1000 feet and take binoculars to better examine the animal. It is confirmed - it is definitely a mammoth-like animal! Report this to base camp.


1030 Hours- Encountering more rolling green hills now. The external temperature indicator reads 74 degrees Fahrenheit! Continuing on our heading now. Navigation instruments seem normal now. I am puzzled over their actions. Attempt to contact base camp. Radio is not functioning!


1130 Hours- Countryside below is more level and normal (if I may use that word). Ahead we spot what seems to be a city!!!! This is impossible! Aircraft seems light and oddly buoyant. The controls refuse to respond!! My GOD!!! Off our port and starboard wings are a strange type of aircraft. They are closing rapidly alongside! They are disc-shaped and have a radiant quality to them. They are close enough now to see the markings on them. It is a type of Swastika!!! This is fantastic. Where are we! What has happened. I tug at the controls again. They will not respond!!!! We are caught in an invisible vice grip of some type!


1135 Hours- Our radio crackles and a voice comes through in English with what perhaps is a slight Nordic or Germanic accent! The message is: 'Welcome, Admiral, to our domain. We shall land you in exactly seven minutes! Relax, Admiral, you are in good hands.' I note the engines of our plane have stopped running! The aircraft is under some strange control and is now turning itself. The controls are useless.


1140 Hours- Another radio message received. We begin the landing process now, and in moments the plane shudders slightly, and begins a descent as though caught in some great unseen elevator! The downward motion is negligible, and we touch down with only a slight jolt!


1145 Hours- I am making a hasty last entry in the flight log. Several men are approaching on foot toward our aircraft. They are tall with blond hair. In the distance is a large shimmering city pulsating with rainbow hues of color. I do not know what is going to happen now, but I see no signs of weapons on those approaching. I hear now a voice ordering me by name to open the cargo door. I comply.

END LOG

www.reversespin.com/byrd.html

[mindmetoo]