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| Who were the First? |
| The Sex Pistols |
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31% |
[ 9 ] |
| Johny Thunders and the Heartbreakers |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
| The New York Dolls |
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17% |
[ 5 ] |
| Iggy Pop and the Stooges |
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27% |
[ 8 ] |
| The Ramones |
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17% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| blurgalurgalurga wrote: |
| Well, I gotta say its Iggy and the Stooges, because he was the first one outside of the sideshow geek-circuit to roll around naked in broken glass and poop onstage for money. |
That's a quite limited definition of a genre.
There's also a large political side to this subculture. This comes from the dole culture in the U.K. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Is punk even music? I mean sriously, all this talk of influences and whatever about "music" anyone can play. Its like talking about the artisitc influences of a kindergartener who just drew a sun and a bunny with her crayon..Picasso? |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| Is punk even music? I mean sriously, all this talk of influences and whatever about "music" anyone can play. Its like talking about the artisitc influences of a kindergartener who just drew a sun and a bunny with her crayon..Picasso? |
"Art is not meant to decorate apartments it's a weapon"
Pablo Picasso
You can't get any more punk than that. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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The guy who said Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa is on the right track. Punk happened long before their was a genre "punk."
I'd put the Kinks and the Who as godfathers of British Punk.
The whole which side of the Atlantic it started on is far too intellectual a pursuit for punk.
As far as classic punk goes, my vote goes to the Clash. |
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scotty c
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| velvet underground for sure |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| topas wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
The MC5 and Iggy and the Stooges are commonly defined as garage bands. The were punk-ish, but not quite punk.
Most punk scholars would say that attitude, sound, AND style make up punk, just like hip hop. The Dolls were the first punk band for several reasons. The sound was there, and directly influenced the Pistols through McLaren and the Ramones through the New York scene. Though the sound wasn't what most people would say is "punk" it was the first step on the road. |
It seems that your argument for the Dolls actually applies to MC5 and Iggy and the Stooges as well, so I'm not following too well. Personally, I think the Dolls were quite glam and the attitude was lacking. And if we want to start with the semantic hairsplitting, the Stooges are also commonly defined as "proto-punk"  . |
Did you read the first line? The MC5 and Iggy and the Stooges are "Garage Bands." If you're going to play the genre game follow it's rules, everyone has their place. You can say that garage rock led to punk, but in the genre of punk the first "punk band" is the Dolls. If you want to play the "proto-punk" game the the Stooges and Dolls tie.
You don't know anything about the Dolls if you think they were glam. The point wasn't to look like a pretty girl, but to look like a pissed off ugly dude dressed like a chick. Sid Vicious spent his whole "career" trying to be Johnny Thunders, just like Thunders was trying to be Keith Richards. Someone always came before. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
The guy who said Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa is on the right track. Punk happened long before their was a genre "punk."
I'd put the Kinks and the Who as godfathers of British Punk.
The whole which side of the Atlantic it started on is far too intellectual a pursuit for punk.
As far as classic punk goes, my vote goes to the Clash. |
I agree with everything you said except the last line. The Who (or more specifically the whole mod movement in England) is really the start of teenage youth culture that led to punk.
Sure they were around before the term punk was used, but so were the Sex Pistols, the Clash, and all the influential New York bands. |
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Pink Freud
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Also, Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa were pretty punk.
Nonsense. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you can chalk it all up to the Mod movement. The Mod sense of what it means to be stylish was clearly a huge influence on British punk, but the whole Rocker/Greaser thing was too. Mods weren't really known for the black leather bomber jacket look.
You could take it all the way back to post-war England and America, with the rise of rock n' roll and the beat aesthetic. Essentially the birth of a real, and somewhat universal, youth culture. I distinguish this from the jazz subculture of the 1920's and 30's because that was not youth specific. Punk was just the predominant youth subculture in the late 70's/early 80's.
These sorts of questions always get convoluted, and I love it, but the original question was "what was the first punk band?" and the answer is the Dolls. If you want to talk about who most popularized punk I think it was The Clash. The Pistols faded too quick. Yeah, their US tour influenced people all over the States like they already had in England, but The Clash had mainstream success with some of their records, and that's what it takes to popularize a subculture. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
I don't think you can chalk it all up to the Mod movement. The Mod sense of what it means to be stylish was clearly a huge influence on British punk, but the whole Rocker/Greaser thing was too. Mods weren't really known for the black leather bomber jacket look.
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You really have to look at it more on the social level. Sure punks look more like rockers than mods, but consider the history of the two countercultures.
-The mod movement basically gave out in the mid '60s, and a large number of mods became skinheads. A lot of the earliest punks were old enough to remember 1969 and quite a few even had older brothers who had been skinheads. Punk brought back a mod revival with bands like the Jam, a ska revival with bands like Madness and the Specials, and a skinhead revival which included not only bands like Madness and Bad Manners but also a newer sound like Caulk Sparrer and the Business.
-The rocker movement didn't die out or change the same way mods did. When punk first came out, a large number of the old rockers were still around, still doing the same thing. They saw the punks as a great new rival they hadn't had since the mods, and would often jump these young punks half their age. Joe Strummer showed up at a punk show once dressed as a rocker, and the police kicked him out because they thought he was there to start a fight with the punks. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Actually they sound pretty cool. I'm gonna have to listen to more of them. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Probably the Kinks, but whoever did that Louie Louie song first was also onto it. La Bomba is pretty punik too. Dick dale, the Ventures. Hell, Screamin' Jay hawkins... |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Surprised it took 2 pages before someone mentioned The Kinks. |
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