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Three reasons to raise my kid back home
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blaseblasphemener



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joining this thread late, but interesting stuff.

I have a baby son, and I will probably stay in Korea for 5 years, as long as the money keeps rolling in.

One thing that was mentioned was the lack of sports here. Personally, I find that refreshing. Doesn't it seem like we put far too much emphasis on sports in North America? I can't speak for Europe, but I'm guessing it's similar.

I think a lot of kids who play sports in middle school and high school end up having their studies suffer. I know mine did. My son will have school first, music second, sports third.
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lucas_p



Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaseblasphemener wrote:
My son will have school first, music second, sports third.


Why music second? And where does art fit? Why are you leaving good old art out?? Laughing


Oh, and I wanted to just....bring something up. I always thought if we ever had kids someday, that we would move to the States once they are grade school age.

I am rethinking that. My main point against staying in Korea was the education system. But really, any "mixed" kids would have an advantage. They would be one up with English -- and that right there can determine how far they wish to go in the work world. And the most strenuous part of being a kid in Korea is the hogwons that are added on. If a parent chose not to do that so much, and had their kids study and focus on what they could, I think they would benefit from a society in which study was the most important thing -- as long as you didn't get crazy with it like some Korean parents do. Seems to me, now that I think about it, that success would be lined up for them, should they choose to take it.

And if they failed school, they could become a model, no? Laughing
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Hanson



Joined: 20 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaseblasphemener wrote:
joining this thread late, but interesting stuff.

I have a baby son, and I will probably stay in Korea for 5 years, as long as the money keeps rolling in.

One thing that was mentioned was the lack of sports here. Personally, I find that refreshing. Doesn't it seem like we put far too much emphasis on sports in North America? I can't speak for Europe, but I'm guessing it's similar.

I think a lot of kids who play sports in middle school and high school end up having their studies suffer. I know mine did. My son will have school first, music second, sports third.


I think you're missing a key point with respect to sports - they develop/foster a ton of things, like social skills, behavioural skills, the concept of a sacrifice for the greater good (the bunt is the most under-rated and under-used play in baseball today), the concept of losing/winning with dignity, not to mention have a whole lot of fun, trials and tribulations (especially at higher levels).

You can't get that by drawing pictures or playing an instrument (although I do support the arts, too, of course).

These skills don't earn you an 'A' except in the class called Life.
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lucas_p



Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanson wrote:
You can't get that by drawing pictures or playing an instrument (although I do support the atrs, too, of course).


I support them too, a noble alien race.
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Hanson



Joined: 20 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lucas_p wrote:
Hanson wrote:
You can't get that by drawing pictures or playing an instrument (although I do support the atrs, too, of course).


I support them too, a noble alien race.


Look again. Whachootalkin'bout? Razz
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GreenlightmeansGO



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the suicide rate in this country. Someone said kids grow up to be happy. Did a quick search and this article reinforces my thinking that I wouldn't want to raise a kid here. Not now, anyway.

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=390145
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Homer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said many kids grow up happy greenlight...not all...but where on this world do all kids grow up happy?

Ying,

I do not wear such glasses. I am however a realist and can evaluate my childs welfare better than say...you. I am sorry buddy but you really have no idea what you are talking about.

My son is happy here. He is starting to make friends (very temporary friens because he is just 2 but still). He will also learn about half his heritage and this is extremely important. We might move when he reaches middle school age. We will decide then.

Korea is just not the dark cave you describe ying and you are judging it from the perspective of an adult with memories of what it was like to be a kid in your home country. Thats the key right there, our kids are not you. They come from a mixed heritage and that is important.

As parents you determine how your child grows up. You foster and happy learning environment.

I have many friends here with mixed kids in Korean schools. Overwhelmingly they are having a positive experience of it. Their kids enjoy school and have tons of friends. They play sports, go to parks, have sleep overs and are learning very well in capable elementary schools. They are also learning about their Korean heritage.

Some have problems of course but what place on this planet is perfect?

Also, education and life back home is not all roses ying. It is just that too many people put it up as such from memories that often become rosier as time passes. I personally see value in both places (Korea and Canada) and hope to see my child value both. I think he is lucky to get this chance to broaden his horizons....

The flip side of that coin is that my kid also has to learn about the other half of his heritage (Canada) and this might mean we will move there when he reaches middle school or high school.
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blaseblasphemener



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanson wrote:
blaseblasphemener wrote:
joining this thread late, but interesting stuff.

I have a baby son, and I will probably stay in Korea for 5 years, as long as the money keeps rolling in.

One thing that was mentioned was the lack of sports here. Personally, I find that refreshing. Doesn't it seem like we put far too much emphasis on sports in North America? I can't speak for Europe, but I'm guessing it's similar.

I think a lot of kids who play sports in middle school and high school end up having their studies suffer. I know mine did. My son will have school first, music second, sports third.


I think you're missing a key point with respect to sports - they develop/foster a ton of things, like social skills, behavioural skills, the concept of a sacrifice for the greater good (the bunt is the most under-rated and under-used play in baseball today), the concept of losing/winning with dignity, not to mention have a whole lot of fun, trials and tribulations (especially at higher levels).

You can't get that by drawing pictures or playing an instrument (although I do support the arts, too, of course).

These skills don't earn you an 'A' except in the class called Life.


I don't have anything against sports, I see there value, but we put them far too high in North America, IMO. School should come first, with no close second. The Arts are just something I want my kid to excel in, piano and violin/guitar, and sports, but in good measure, so as not to detract from his studies. That's what I'm saying.
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lucas_p



Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GreenlightmeansGO wrote:
I find it interesting that nobody mentioned the suicide rate in this country. Someone said kids grow up to be happy. Did a quick search and this article reinforces my thinking that I wouldn't want to raise a kid here. Not now, anyway.

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=390145


Yeah, that is due to the stress of study for getting into university. That is pressure made by society and parents.

Like I was saying before, I think if a parent chose not to send their child to all of those hagwons, the child would be spared much of the stress that goes on here. The child being "western" and Korean, they would already have an advantage in English speaking, one of the main things to study in a hagwon. I think such a couple would be opposed to the idea of the study-holic society and keep that away from their child, thus sparing them of the biggest negative to growing up in Korea.
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anae



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: cowtown

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is very true that the parents have control of how much pressure and how many hogwans, but it can get hard when social life revolves around hogwons. My husband's friend is against the idea of hogwans, but ended up putting her kids in them when she found all the playgrounds empty. Her kids were just lonely.
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skconqueror



Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreitler7 wrote:
Ilsanman,

In Canadian public schools, children don't "flunk out" anymore, at least not in elementary and junior high. Children are continually passed into the next grade nowadays no matter what their grades are. The thinking is that it is better to keep a child with their same age group instead of the same intellectual group.

I taught math in Canada to many kids. One kid had 20% in math 8. But guess what? He moved on up to grade 9 the next year. There were other kids who didn't quite make that 50%, but they still moved up anyway. This decision lies in the hands of the school councillor and not the teachers.

Don't think for a second that Canada's schools are so rigid. It is not that simple. Teachers routinely "adjust" grades in order to satisfy parents, administration, and the students. This happens in all levels, including university (grading on the "curve").


Not true, my nephew is in the 3rd grade, I was talking to my sister when I was home this summer, and a boy in his class was help back a year. It does still happen. It probably isn't common, but not non existent.

ps. As for the poster who said grades are not given.. that isnt true either. My nephew showed me his report card, and there were % marks included.
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kotakji



Joined: 23 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:


My son is happy here. He is starting to make friends (very temporary friens because he is just 2 but still). He will also learn about half his heritage and this is extremely important. We might move when he reaches middle school age. We will decide then.



I think you might have a point here. From my understanding the whole Wangta thing doesnt really become a problem until the middle school age. (yes this is my personal obsession as my wife went through it and as such doesnt want it for our children). So I can understand keeping a child here during the elementary school years. Regardless I wanted some opinions from those who've been in the situation to confirm or deny any such reports.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a thread elsewhere which asks, "If your spouse suddenly dies, would you stay here or go?"
I think that is a more pertinent question that actually asks you to make a decision, rather than to willy nilly about the weather and air.

From this thread I have learned on thing: That everyone has markedly different relationships with their family here, and family there. Some have close relationships so say that Korea attaches importance to family values, others' relationships prove to them that the expression of 'Korean family values' is all water and no meat.

Quote:
this is my personal obsession as my wife went through it


Can you please expand this? Where was your wife from?
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanson wrote:
Before having my daughter, I thought I would bolt back home as soon as possible after having a child. Now that I do have a child, I feel differently. As long as we move back home by the time my daughter is 9 or 10 years old, I'll be satisfied knowing I gave my child the chance to grow up in both cultures.


I'm interested in this and I hope you will expand on it. My wife and I have started planning for a baby and I was thinking that 5-6 years of age (5-7 years from now) would be the benchmark to move back home. I immigrated to Canada as a baby, acquired most of my mother tongue but had a little English by the time kindergarten rolled around. But I think the move into Canadian kindergarten ensured the best English acquisition for me. But it was so long ago I can't remember for sure how it played out for me.

But I'm interested to know your reasons for why you feel your daughter would be better exposed to both cultures then than at another age, e.g. kindie level.

If you prefer to PM your answer, that's fine too.
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Hanson



Joined: 20 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vox wrote:
Hanson wrote:
Before having my daughter, I thought I would bolt back home as soon as possible after having a child. Now that I do have a child, I feel differently. As long as we move back home by the time my daughter is 9 or 10 years old, I'll be satisfied knowing I gave my child the chance to grow up in both cultures.


I'm interested in this and I hope you will expand on it. My wife and I have started planning for a baby and I was thinking that 5-6 years of age (5-7 years from now) would be the benchmark to move back home. I immigrated to Canada as a baby, acquired most of my mother tongue but had a little English by the time kindergarten rolled around. But I think the move into Canadian kindergarten ensured the best English acquisition for me. But it was so long ago I can't remember for sure how it played out for me.

But I'm interested to know your reasons for why you feel your daughter would be better exposed to both cultures then than at another age, e.g. kindie level.

If you prefer to PM your answer, that's fine too.


There are so many things to consider.

We only have one child now, but plan on having another in the next year or two, so I'd like my second child to be here for a while too. My second child would hypothetically be about 5 or 6 years old when we would move back home, similar to what you were saying.

Second, a friend of mine moved back to the US 18 months ago with his 3-year-old. He was saying that his daughter has already lost all her Korean language skills, since mom (Korean) works full-time and everything around them is in English. I want to give my kids a good grouding in Korean before leaving, and to me, that means we would leave by the time my daughter is 9 or 10.

Third, I've read quite a bit about language acquisition, and it seems children pick up languages very well until around puberty, so that gives us more time.

Having grown up in Montreal, I've met many immigrants who have had to learn French/English from scratch. Many of them did very well with it, while others stumbled and only got upto an intermediate level of language proficiency. My daughter will definitely have a leg up on them. Also, I've met many, many people who have learned another language after elementary-scool-age, and they speak as near-native as it gets.

When I was a kid, I spoke English in the house with my parents and sister. When I started kindergarten, I was put into the French system without a lick of French. I'm now perfectly bilingual with no accent in either language, although those first few years of schooling were tough for me (language, kids at school teasing me, etc...), but they made me stronger, I think. Had I started learning French a few years later, perhaps my French wouldn't be as good as it actually is, but I was starting from nothing - my daughter will have the basics of English, through me, as well as numerous opportunities to be exposed to English through trips home and books/music/tv here at home.

Another point to consider is to look at the people/friends/coworkers I know here in Korea who have children. Several have children of elementary school age, and they speak Korean better than English (of course), but their English is pretty good considering they go to Korean schools.

As a final note, I also plan on getting my kids to learn French. If my kids could have 3 languages, I would be very happy indeed...
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