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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Hanson,
If you take what I'm saying so personally, maybe you ought to go get your head examined. Yes, I personally think it is cruel, however I did certainly not mean cruel like killing someone (which is how you are percieving it) but more like causing temporary pain. Considering their ear canals and head are still growing and maturing there is no way to know for sure how much pain or stress it causes a baby to fly.
Whether or not I would take a baby on a flight before he/she was 2 years old, I don't know if I would. |
I think you need to look up the word "cruel". My child's ears are fine. I'm done with this.
Peace. |
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nobbyken
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Yongin ^^
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Last time I flew from the UK to Korea, there was a ban on carrying liquids in hand luggage.
I don't know if these restrictions are still in place, or are there measures in place to allow babies to have a bottle of milk? |
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anae
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: cowtown
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Both of my daughters have flown from Canada to Korea at nine months. I nursed them on take off and landing so there was no ear pain. Neither baby even fussed for more than a few seconds, we were very conscious of the comfort of the passengers around us. We did whatever was necessary to keep baby happy. We were lucky to get the bulkhead with my first daughter, so we could have a crib with her (she was under 18lbs). It was really nice to have a place to put her when she fell asleep. She slept most of the flight home. The engine noise seems to help some babies stay asleep. I had to hold my second daughter the entire way. We were not able to get the bulkhead and she was over six months, so she did not qualify for the floor bassinet. Holding a nine month old baby for 13 hours is challenging, but not impossible. Our United FA often volunteered to walk her around the plane and so did a few of the ajumas and ajusshis who sat near us.
My advice-
Fly at a younger age if you can. They sleep more and they don't want to crawl around. Our older daughter was crawling by the time we flew and it got a little exhausting trying to contain her.
Always give a bottle or nurse during take off and landing.
Get the baby's ears checked before you go. Then you will know for sure if there is any need for medicine. You don't want to find out about an ear infection on the plane.
Pack for every possibility. Do not rely on the airline to provide anything. Asiana said they would provide meals etc. and they didn't. Pack extra clothes (clothes for you as well in case of spit up, spillage...), food, bottles, diapers, toys. You never know when you will be delayed, rerouted or stuck on the tarmac.
Pack baby saline nose spray and tylenol in case of discomfort.
Baby bottles, sippy cups, juice etc are permitted for children 2 and under. You just must put them in the bin when you go through security. All other liquids must be less than 100ml each and fit in a small clear ziplock type bag.
Good luck |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Great advice. Thanks a lot.
We're prolly flying to Canada next summer. Our daughter will be 7-8 months old.
| anae wrote: |
Both of my daughters have flown from Canada to Korea at nine months. I nursed them on take off and landing so there was no ear pain. Neither baby even fussed for more than a few seconds, we were very conscious of the comfort of the passengers around us. We did whatever was necessary to keep baby happy. We were lucky to get the bulkhead with my first daughter, so we could have a crib with her (she was under 18lbs). It was really nice to have a place to put her when she fell asleep. She slept most of the flight home. The engine noise seems to help some babies stay asleep. I had to hold my second daughter the entire way. We were not able to get the bulkhead and she was over six months, so she did not qualify for the floor bassinet. Holding a nine month old baby for 13 hours is challenging, but not impossible. Our United FA often volunteered to walk her around the plane and so did a few of the ajumas and ajusshis who sat near us.
My advice-
Fly at a younger age if you can. They sleep more and they don't want to crawl around. Our older daughter was crawling by the time we flew and it got a little exhausting trying to contain her.
Always give a bottle or nurse during take off and landing.
Get the baby's ears checked before you go. Then you will know for sure if there is any need for medicine. You don't want to find out about an ear infection on the plane.
Pack for every possibility. Do not rely on the airline to provide anything. Asiana said they would provide meals etc. and they didn't. Pack extra clothes (clothes for you as well in case of spit up, spillage...), food, bottles, diapers, toys. You never know when you will be delayed, rerouted or stuck on the tarmac.
Pack baby saline nose spray and tylenol in case of discomfort.
Baby bottles, sippy cups, juice etc are permitted for children 2 and under. You just must put them in the bin when you go through security. All other liquids must be less than 100ml each and fit in a small clear ziplock type bag.
Good luck |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Babies and small kods cry very little on planes. There is a good reason for it, called "hypoxia". It is simply a mild harmless shortage of oxygen and small children are particularly affected by it. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| hmm..babies don't cry on airplanes. I don't buy that. Maybe yours doesn't, but all the planes I've been on which had a family with a small baby did. Personally I think it is rude to the other people on the plane and cruel to the child. |
LOL! Well, I would not say it is cruel to the baby....but, I do think there should be special flights for parents who have babies/toddlers riding aboard.
NO....flight passengers do NOT HAVE to by sympathetic or are required to "understand" the situation. Really, people do not want to hear some chud of a kid crying non stop for 4-8 hours, while the parent does, or is incapable of......doing nothing. It is a true test of patience, sitting behind, in front of, or next to those who pack the kids who won't STFP.
Then, the parents who ALLOW the toddlers to act as if the plane is their own personal play ground. NO. Customers/passengers are NOT required to put up with a non stop teeth grinder.
How about this?
Nyquil...............it works wonders for those kids. Put them to sleep.
dmbfan |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| Nyquil...............it works wonders for those kids. Put them to sleep. |
yes and potentially lethal for children under 10. |
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dogshed
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| hmm..babies don't cry on airplanes. I don't buy that. Maybe yours doesn't, but all the planes I've been on which had a family with a small baby did. Personally I think it is rude to the other people on the plane and cruel to the child. |
LOL! Well, I would not say it is cruel to the baby....but, I do think there should be special flights for parents who have babies/toddlers riding aboard.
NO....flight passengers do NOT HAVE to by sympathetic or are required to "understand" the situation. Really, people do not want to hear some chud of a kid crying non stop for 4-8 hours, while the parent does, or is incapable of......doing nothing. It is a true test of patience, sitting behind, in front of, or next to those who pack the kids who won't STFP.
Then, the parents who ALLOW the toddlers to act as if the plane is their own personal play ground. NO. Customers/passengers are NOT required to put up with a non stop teeth grinder.
How about this?
Nyquil...............it works wonders for those kids. Put them to sleep.
dmbfan |
I would guess the parents let the kids walk around the plane so they
will be happy and not cry and get worn out and sleep. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| hmm..babies don't cry on airplanes. I don't buy that. Maybe yours doesn't, but all the planes I've been on which had a family with a small baby did. Personally I think it is rude to the other people on the plane and cruel to the child. |
LOL! Well, I would not say it is cruel to the baby....but, I do think there should be special flights for parents who have babies/toddlers riding aboard.
NO....flight passengers do NOT HAVE to by sympathetic or are required to "understand" the situation. Really, people do not want to hear some chud of a kid crying non stop for 4-8 hours, while the parent does, or is incapable of......doing nothing. It is a true test of patience, sitting behind, in front of, or next to those who pack the kids who won't STFP.
Then, the parents who ALLOW the toddlers to act as if the plane is their own personal play ground. NO. Customers/passengers are NOT required to put up with a non stop teeth grinder.
How about this?
Nyquil...............it works wonders for those kids. Put them to sleep.
dmbfan |
Airlines recommend that you walk up and down the Aisle when you are flying, anyway.. what's the big deal? Do you tell grown ups who keep walking up and down the aisle to sit down and stop walking about? You don't. So why should you with a young child who would otherwise cry if she/he were forced to sit still for the entire journey???? |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
NO....flight passengers do NOT HAVE to by sympathetic or are required to "understand" the situation. Really, people do not want to hear some chud of a kid crying non stop for 4-8 hours, while the parent does, or is incapable of......doing nothing. It is a true test of patience, sitting behind, in front of, or next to those who pack the kids who won't STFP.
Then, the parents who ALLOW the toddlers to act as if the plane is their own personal play ground. NO. Customers/passengers are NOT required to put up with a non stop teeth grinder. |
No, they aren't required to, but most people do. And they do it out of genuine empathy, a recognition that this is part of the human condition.
I find it interesting in my travels around the world that the people with the least empathy for others generally (but not always) turn out to be young, western (more specifically, North American) males. People who come from cultures that are more tolerant of children in what are supposedly adult spaces are rarely a problem. And older people tend to have developed the patience that you speak of being tested. Give yourself time.
BTW, I don't have children. I have flown on planes and sat on buses with crying children. With one exception, all the parents in these cases were truly apologetic about the disturbance to others, but it was clear in some cases that the baby was just going to cry. We all lived through it. It wasn't fun, but it wasn't fatal. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe these people who don't sympathize have a problem here where people don't apologize.
I only have a problem when the parents aren't making a real effort. Like 'let him cry, he'll cry him self out', that kinda BS parenting. It may work at home but not on a trans-pacific flight.
| Woland wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
NO....flight passengers do NOT HAVE to by sympathetic or are required to "understand" the situation. Really, people do not want to hear some chud of a kid crying non stop for 4-8 hours, while the parent does, or is incapable of......doing nothing. It is a true test of patience, sitting behind, in front of, or next to those who pack the kids who won't STFP.
Then, the parents who ALLOW the toddlers to act as if the plane is their own personal play ground. NO. Customers/passengers are NOT required to put up with a non stop teeth grinder. |
No, they aren't required to, but most people do. And they do it out of genuine empathy, a recognition that this is part of the human condition.
I find it interesting in my travels around the world that the people with the least empathy for others generally (but not always) turn out to be young, western (more specifically, North American) males. People who come from cultures that are more tolerant of children in what are supposedly adult spaces are rarely a problem. And older people tend to have developed the patience that you speak of being tested. Give yourself time.
BTW, I don't have children. I have flown on planes and sat on buses with crying children. With one exception, all the parents in these cases were truly apologetic about the disturbance to others, but it was clear in some cases that the baby was just going to cry. We all lived through it. It wasn't fun, but it wasn't fatal. |
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betchay
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said, earlier in the thread:
| ttompatz wrote: |
| Babies love to fly and usually don't cry except on landing. To solve this, let them drink during the landing to equalize pressure on the ears so there is no discomfort. They often sleep for most of the flight (because of the motion of the plane). |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I flew with my daughter at 3 months and 4 months. Absolutely no problems. Her longest crying spurt lasted about 3 minutes. She slept for about 12 of 13 hours. There is no problem carrying baby formula.
Ignore the twats here who can't put up with a baby's cries. |
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ABC KID
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: After-flight evaluation |
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Just thought I'd revive this oldish thread as I have just got back from the journey I was planning when I initially started the thread.
We flew to England, changing planes in Amsterdam. Our baby was about three and a half months when we went to England and four months when we came back.
When we went, our baby made more noise on the bus to Incheon airport than the whole ten hour plus flight to Europe plus the time at Amsterdam plus the flight to England, which was another hour or so. She had a little cry (not wailing) when we first got on the plane but had stopped before take-off and only cried once for about a minute during the whole flight. Slept for about the first five hours and then alternated between sleeping and lying down awake but quietly (cradle supplied by KLM).
Whilst in England she started teething, which was a concern and sure enought the return journey was not so smooth. She was okay for the short flight to Amsterdam but from Amsterdam to Incheon was more difficult. For the first third of the flight she was largely unsettled but didn't cry too much, for the second third of the flight she wouldn't stop crying unless I was holding her and then we just did one simple thing... We turned her around in her cradle and she magicly went to sleep and was fine for the rest of the flight.
Even while she was crying, I didn't hear any disapproving comments or see any disapproving looks. People were more concerned with how cute she was when she wasn't crying.
Of course some people would disagree but I would say that it is fine to take your very young babies on airplanes providing as parents, you can stay patient when your baby is crying and don't lose your cool. If you can't keep your baby calm at home then don't fly but if you don't usually have any serious problems at home then why shouldn't you fly? Take your trip and have fun! |
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