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Is American healthcare really that bad? What about Canada?
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I don't get is how it costs $60,000 to reattach a finger, and $12,000 for the other. Seriously, how can one fingers cost 5 times more than the other? How much money does the doctor get from that surgery?
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
American vs. Canadian health care?

According to the World Health Organization's opinion, Canada ranks no. 30 and the United States no. 37. As you can see, Canada is not exactly on the cutting-edge, either. And France, Italy, Andorra, and Spain shame Canada far more severely than Canada shames America. Wink

Moore also hails Cuban health-care as superior to the despised, greedy America's. But WHO ranked Cuba at no. 39.

NPR Reports


I would say good for France and Italy. Canada and the US should both aspire to approach them, right? I don't think Canadians want to stay at 30 and want to improve the universal health care that is being provided.
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fresh Prince wrote:
I once read a story about the caste system in India. There was a man from the lowest class called the, "Untouchables." When asked the question as to why the "Untouchables" did not have any success in bettering themselves and rising out poverty, he replied that it was the the people in the caste directly above them that were the reason. He explained that caste in the next level up were the ones that fought the changes in society that would benefit the "Untouchables" and that they were the one's that vigorously oppossed any changes that would better those at the bottom. He said that they did that because they were afraid of losing their position in society if everything became equal then the "Untouchables" would have entered the market and competed for the same jobs. He said that the members of the richest caste were actually very sympathetic and contributed a lot to ease their suffering because they had no fear that the "Untouchables" would ever be in direct competition with them.

I can't help wonder if the same concept is the driving force behind the opposition to healthcare reform in the U.S. today. Is this a socio-economic class issue? Do middle-class Americans oppose healthcare changes that would benefit the poorer members of society because they don't feel any obligation to the lower class, aka working class?


Someone mentioned that Michael Moore is obese. They have a point, but he has lost some weight recently. Even if he is overweight it doesn't mean he hasn't raised valid points and obese people and others deserve medical care.

Now back to what Ali G, Fresh Prince was saying I do think many people in America want universal health care, but the media is largely dominated by interest groups who are not interested in such a discourse and many middle class Americans also oppose universal health care. Many of them feel no obligation to help their fellow Americans who are poor. They think it is their problem. I knew many people like that. I knew this one fellow who said if you didn't have a job that paid health insurance then it is your problem. Of course, that would often apply to waiters in restaurants.
It strikes me as cruel to have the attitude that it is someone's problem if they get hurt and work for someone that doesn't provide them with health insurance and doctors should be promoting universal health care because it is in conformity with the Hippocratic Oath. I have a lot of respect for doctors who go overseas to help indigent people.

One of my students is a doctor who is going to the US for a year to get more experience. He has to pay 1,500 dollars for health insurance a year just for himself and 5000 a year for his wife. I am not sure what he would have to pay to insure his kids or if he wil. I didn't ask that.
However, that is 6,500 bucks just for the two of them. I remember a former colleague of mine who was paying an arm and a leg for health insurance for him and his wife. If you have a lot of income how much you will pay won't matter.
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Poemer



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Mullae

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason that it costs $60,000 to attach the middle finger and $12,000 for the ring finger is that the middle finger has a greater effect on manual dexterity, whereas the ability to grasp and manipulate objects is not as severely affected by a missing ring finger. You get charged based on the usefuleness of the digit they are reattaching. Even if you don't have insurance, the hospital sets its prices based on the insurance companies formula.

The doctor doesn't "get" any of the money typically, usually the hospital pays him/her a salary. You pay the hospital, not the doctor.
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Wurmwood



Joined: 13 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad Waaaah! I'm from Canada and I have to wait for surgery. Wah, wah, wah! Crying or Very sad Boo-friggin'-hoo! Come down to America where you may not ever get that surgery if you can't afford it, or if you can afford it, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to pay off the debt. Come to America where we pay more than twice as much for our healthcare as the citizens of any other nation in the world and half the house-holds in the country are one serious injury or illness away from bankruptcy. Come to America where you may not be able to afford health insurance and even if you can, your insurance company will try to find ways of weaseling out of covering you if anything serious happens to you. You baby's don't know how good you have it.

As for having to wait, didn't Moore cover that in the movie? Didn't he talk about the triage system? If you have to wait for surgery, it's probably because there're other people who need the surgery worse than you do and the doctors have determined that you're healthy enough to wait a while. If you were on the brink of death, I'm sure they'd move you up the list. If you can't wait and decide you want to come down to America, go ahead; if you can afford it.
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kreitler7



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in Canada, some people DO die because the waiting lists are simply too long. Nowadays many of our doctors need to be imported from foreign countries because many of the Canadian doctors are chasing the dollar in the U.S.

My Aunt needed chemo drugs. She has been covered by Alberta Health Care all of her life. But, they said that SHE would have to pay $24,000 for her drugs. So, actually, our insurance cannot always be relied upon, even when we need it most.

I have asked nurses who have worked in both countries. They say both systems are f*cked. And that's the truth. They both have their negatives and positives, that in the end, cancel out. I don't think one system is better than the other. To find a better system, you would probably have to go to Europe or select places in Asia (Japan, Singapore).
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Wurmwood



Joined: 13 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree; the Canadian system has room for improvement; I just think it's a lot better than the American system and I've got the W.H.O on my side. I think preventative medicine is very important and the U.S. is pretty bad about that.
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kreitler7



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I wouldn't say that Canada practices preventive medicine either. If you are thinking about moving to Canada for the health care, don't. You will be disappointed.
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poemer wrote:
The reason that it costs $60,000 to attach the middle finger and $12,000 for the ring finger is that the middle finger has a greater effect on manual dexterity, whereas the ability to grasp and manipulate objects is not as severely affected by a missing ring finger. You get charged based on the usefuleness of the digit they are reattaching. Even if you don't have insurance, the hospital sets its prices based on the insurance companies formula.


Really? Can anyone else back this up? So, would the tip of my thumb cost $1,000,000?
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KINGVIC



Joined: 18 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreitler7 wrote:
Well, I wouldn't say that Canada practices preventive medicine either. If you are thinking about moving to Canada for the health care, don't. You will be disappointed.


I seriously doubt this guy is a Canuck
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reactionary



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol what a troll
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should get a bigger avatar
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kreitler7



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I was born and raised in the richest province (Alberta) and our healtcare still sucks here. Where are YOU from?
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mistermasan



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: the US? ouch! Reply with quote

my brother was working. he fell off the roof. he was alive and conscious. the ambulance was called. fifteen minutes later, a hook and ladder fire engine shows up. the paramedics say- "yes, he needs an ambulance" and they called one. the first responders do not have the ability to transport patients. thirty minutes later the ambulance showed up. they loaded him up and he died enroute to the hospital which was about five city blocks from the accident.

the entire system is broke. people can't get into a doctor, so they go to the emergency room. in our major city there aren't really taxis per say, so people call the ambulance to get to the hospital. to discourage such, they don't send out ambulances but rather fire engines. the firemen determine if an ambulance is really needed.and the honest,hard working husbands and fathers continue to died. of course, the city has immunity in suchj cases.
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kreitler7



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Sorry to hear about your brother.

Was that in the US?
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