Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Carlyles Ghost]

For all of the effort and time teachers put into planning and delivering thoughtful, well considered lessons, what practical results do you see in the english ability of your students?

[KYC]

[Ya-ta Boy]

Major improvements in their ability to communicate in English. I don't take credit for more than about 5% of their progress--nearly all of my students study really, really hard. I work with adults and they know their future careers depend on them speaking English.

[Snowkr]

I see very few results at this point. I'm in a public high school... the students are not motivated because the school is not known to be that good. While there are some exceptions, most of the students I work with could really care less about anything that goes on in my classes. I can't say I blame them. There's no assessment and so why should they care?

I was told when I first arrived that the students like young, attractive foreigners and will find them entertaining and so it seems I was hired to do just that. I'm going to tell my school very soon that I did not invest in a Masters in TESOL to come here and be an entertainer to a bunch of teenagers.

[bassexpander]

Snow, I agree, it's often difficult to motivate students at schools which are at a lower level. I noticed a dramatic difference in schools between Bundang's rich areas and Seoul's poorer areas (where I live now). No contest.

If you can't land a uni job next time around (I know, one must often amass experience teaching first), then I'd suggest trying to move to a public school in a richer neighborhood. You will find that the students are far more motivated.

I'd also suggest you try for uni jobs on the fringes of Seoul. Pay your dues there for a few years, then come inland.

[reactionary]

do you ever give up on some students? I have.

I have one now who FALLS ASLEEP WHEN I TALK TO HER. She says she only sleeps 2-3 hours a night, sometimes staying all night at convenience stores...but never has homework done! She also doesnt have a notebook, just dozens of folded loose pieces of white copy paper.

Some students are really hopeless and it makes it really hard to take the job seriously. Mostly I blame the school for not bothering to find quality students - they expect these slugs to succeed in an American university?!

That said, I really like it when I have students who give a damn about their ability and like to see when their writing goes from disgraceful to passing. Writing's where I can see tangible results - it's a bit harder to notice improved speaking/conversation skills for me.

[Carlyles Ghost]

Agreed. Trying to guage the growth in a students speaking ability in a classroom of 40 kids is impossible. I have tried to focus more attention on the kids who seem to care about their english; some times, it seems, if I can only help them to see the difference between "I read a book" and "I am reading a book" and when and how to use the two, then I have had a good day.

Like Ya-ta suggested above, I guess it's important to see my role as a facilitator rather than a 'teacher' as such, and to remember that any success the kids will have largely depends on how hard they study.

If the students english isn't improving, if they are not learning anything, if they are not using what we learn in class, some days I just wonder "what's the point?" "If there is no practical result", I ask, "then why do it?"

On the up-side, my supplemental classes are great; they care. It makes teaching/facilitating a breeze.

[the_beaver]

Considering the thousands of hours required for learning/acquiring a language, in terms of performance I don't expect to see much of difference over a single semester.

Over one semester, however, I do see increased motivation and a greater sense of learner autonomy and knowledge of how to learn language. Also I see more confidence.

With students who take my classes over their university careers I often (not always) see incredible improvement. I can take credit for introducing some of them to autonomous approaches and showing them directions for their acquisition, but, at the end of the day, they are the ones who chose to spend X number of hours studying/practicing and to take classes and to watch English sitcoms and to read English books and to record their voices to work on pronunciation and to join English clubs. I like to think that I influenced their choices.

[Mosley]

My great raving success has been to get them to say"Nice to see you" instead of "Nice to meet you."

[Dome Vans]

[bassexpander]

I'm with the beav on what he said.

A huge amount of it is motivation. I start every semester telling students something to this effect:

"You aren't going to learn how to speak English by just coming to this class, or any other class. You will only learn English by using it here and in your daily life, and by allowing yourself to make mistakes. I don't care if your grammar is not perfect. I don't mind mistakes. I will help correct you as you go along. The most important thing, however, is that you speak. Don't care about what other people think. Don't care about being judged by your English level -- keep trying. Keep learning. Keep using your English. Take the lessons we work on in this class, and find opportunities to use them in everyday life.

You WILL improve.

Unless you speak English every day, and as a part of daily life, you're wasting your time, and your money. All of the extra university or hagwon classes in the world aren't going to make any difference."


I also tell them that if they really want to learn English, that the MUST seek out the company of foreigners. Try to find foreign friends. Talk to them on the subway. Make an MSN chat pal, and use voice chat when you are ready. Try to join the KATUSA (a student I told to do this just did!). Do what you feel you need to do.

I also encourage students to find a way to study overseas, if they are lucky enough to have the opportunity. That would absolutely pi$$ off the Korean gov't officials to no end to hear a foreigner instructing Korean students to do that, but I am not afraid.

I have two students who I encouraged to try for a university-sponsored scholarship to study overseas, and both of them got one (our school's program). They have been in the USA for almost a year now, and they called me on the phone together a while back. Their English has drastically improved, and I'm proud of them. They're realizing their goal!

Another thing that probably would pi$$ off Korean gov't officials -- both of these students dropped out of our university, and will finish their degrees with that school in the USA.

Another former high school student went to the USA, and I always begged her NOT to take English as a major. The reason I said that was because it was readily apparent that she was not interested in teaching one day. I told her she could learn English and go for another major that would probably earn her better pay one day, anyway (Business and Hotel/Restaurant Management was an interest of hers). It's just a better fit for her. After 1 1/2 years, she also called me one evening, and I couldn't believe how fluent her Engish had become!

I'm here for the students, ultimately. I like to think I tell it like it is.

A big part of what I do is to motivate and prepare students for life -- be it English, or whatever.

[Matilda]

I like to measure true English ability on the way they can interact with me outside of the classroom. I might be shopping in HomePlus and come across a gang of 5th graders... or they might be at a restaurant with their parents. I feel so pleased when they can interact with me in genuine conversation about their weekend/night out.

Think also about the students talking to us inbetween class. You may see some 'blossom' by just taking a few minutes to engage them in conversation.

That to me is progress. They are using English in everyday situations.

[mrsquirrel]

I just got my monthly result today. It's on an A4 bit of paper and tells me my salary.

Honestly I can say that over the last two months 90% of my lessons have been a waste of time. The level of participation in class has been so low I might as well have gone home.

Not just me though Korean teachers are saying the same thing to me.

[Snowkr]

Bassexpander

I understand what you mean about demographic being such a factor.

I actually chose this school (perhaps against my better judgement) over several other high school and university teaching positions. I have an M.A. in TESOL and 3 years of experience between three different countries already. The students I have now are the most difficult to teach but I don't think it's always do to low motivation as much as the sheer size of the class.

I can't see any logical reason why many of my students should even care about my classes when they're not graded on anything they do in here.
Of course I realize that I can make a difference in some way... I think my problem right now is just overcoming the fact that after all my experience and study in the fields of TESOL and Linguistics... this job is a huge step down.

When I ask the students why they don't like to study English they say... "too hard and not neccessary"
When I ask them if they like my class, those who can answer say "sometimes funny and you are very cutie.. teacher..." My principal told me that this is the most important part of my job... "being funny and cute..."

[normalcyispasse]

Over the course of each year I find it incredibly gratifying that the students who were new at the beginning of the year can use grammatical structures that we've studied and creatively apply English.

I notice a fairly large improvement, in other words.