|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: Why Romney needs to talk about his faith. |
 |
|
| Quote: |
In a video response of revolting sanctimony and self-pity last week, he responded to some allegedly anti-Mormon "push poll" calls in Iowa and New Hampshire by saying that it was "un-American" to bring up his "faith," especially "at a time when we are preparing for Thanksgiving," whatever that had to do with it. Additional interest is lent to this evasive tactic by the very well-argued case, made by Mark Hemingway in National Review Online, that it was actually the Romney campaign that had initiated the anti-Mormon push-poll calls in the first place! What's that? A threefer? Let me count the ways: You encourage the raising of an awkward question in such a way as to make it seem illegitimate. You then strike a hurt attitude and say that you are being persecuted for your faith. This, in turn, discourages other reporters from raising the question. Yes, that's the three-card monte.
However, we do have the governor in an off-guard moment in Iowa, saying that "The [Mormon] Church says that Christ appears and splits the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. � And then, over a thousand years of the millennium, that the world is reigned in two places, Jerusalem and Missouri. � The law will come from Missouri, and the other will be from Jerusalem."
It ought to be borne in mind that Romney is not a mere rank-and-file Mormon. His family is, and has been for generations, part of the dynastic leadership of the mad cult invented by the convicted fraud Joseph Smith. It is not just legitimate that he be asked about the beliefs that he has not just held, but has caused to be spread and caused to be inculcated into children. It is essential. Here is the most salient reason: Until 1978, the so-called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was an officially racist organization. Mitt Romney was an adult in 1978. We need to know how he justified this to himself, and we need to hear his self-criticism, if he should chance to have one.
The Book of Mormon, when it is not "chloroform in print" as Mark Twain unkindly phrased it, is full of vicious ingenuity. From it you can learn of the ancient battle of Cumorah, which occurred at a site conveniently near Joseph Smith's home in upstate New York. In this legendary engagement, the Nephites, described as fair-skinned and "handsome," fought against the outcast Lamanites, whose punishment for turning away from God was to be afflicted with dark skin. Later, in antebellum Missouri and preaching against abolition, Smith and his cronies announced that there had been a third group in heaven during the battle between God and Lucifer. This group had made the mistake of trying to remain neutral but, following Lucifer's defeat, had been forced into the world and compelled to "take bodies in the accursed lineage of Canaan; and hence the negro or African race." Until 1978, no black American was permitted to hold even the lowly position of deacon in the Mormon Church, and nor were any (not that there were many applicants) admitted to the sacred rites of the temple. The Mormon elders then had a "revelation" and changed the rules, thus more or less belatedly coming into compliance with the dominant civil rights statutes.
Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., has had to be asked about his long-ago membership of the Ku Klux Klan (which, I would remind you, is also a Protestant Christian identity organization), and he was only a fiddle-playing member, not a Grand Kleagle or whatever the hell it is. Why should Romney not be made to give an account of himself? A black candidate with ties to Louis Farrakhan could expect questions about his faith in the existence of the mad scientist Yakub, creator of the white race, or in the orbiting mother ship visited by the head of the Nation of Islam. What gives Romney an exemption?
So phooey, say I, to the false reticence of the press and to the bogus sensitivities that underlie it. This extends even to the less important matters. If candidates can be asked to declare their preference as between briefs and boxers, then we already have a precedent, and Romney can be asked whether, as a true believer should, he wears Mormon underwear. What's un-American about that? The bottom line is that Romney should expect to be asked these very important questions, and we should expect him not to obfuscate and whine anymore but to give clear and unambiguous answers to them. |
http://www.slate.com/id/2178568/fr/rss/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No, people should not be asked specifics about their religious beliefs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Holy crap I disagree.
I want to know what god tells them in their heads. George Bush talks to god. I want to know what they talk about. I want to know what Mitt thinks. Stephen Harper goes on about "god bless Canada" (makes me want to vomit). What about Canada does Harper think god blesses? Does Harper think his religion tells him to increase the punishment for pot or prevent gay marriage?
Why can you ask about political philosophy and not religious philosophy? Some religious philosophy is inherently political. Why is that off limits? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You have a right to ask a politician what his stand is on an issue. You may be curious why he thinks the way he does. You may be curious about his sex life, too. But curiosity does not give you the right to ask. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So, a journalist trying to present a full picture of a candidate doesn't have the right to ask? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Correct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Casting the First Stone Very Precisely: Keep Your Religion Private or Publicly Defend It
Not to mention: live by it.
I'm with Hitch: Mitt Romney, let alone any publicly religious person running for office needs to tell us exactly what it is that they believe. Especially the bits that infringe just a tad on others' freedom (gay rights comes to mind).
Even were I not an apostate, I like to believe that I would want others to keep their religion to themselves. Failing that, if you're going to try to score points with it ("Jesus is my favorite philosopher") or try to control others with it (see: 'pro-lifers' who support capital punishment) then defend it. But first, 'fess up. I hear it's good for the soul. At least the Pope has the 'nads to spit directly in womens' eyes with his opposition to birth control, abortion and female priesthood. But if he ran for prez, things would no doubt get all vague. Bump that, especially the godless press's 'deference' to such twaddle.
As usual, Hitch (who's a pal) has his normal great fun with Mormonism but en route makes excellent points:
It ought to be borne in mind that Romney is not a mere rank-and-file Mormon. His family is, and has been for generations, part of the dynastic leadership of the mad cult invented by the convicted fraud Joseph Smith. It is not just legitimate that he be asked about the beliefs that he has not just held, but has caused to be spread and caused to be inculcated into children. It is essential. Here is the most salient reason: Until 1978, the so-called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was an officially racist organization. Mitt Romney was an adult in 1978. We need to know how he justified this to himself, and we need to hear his self-criticism, if he should chance to have one.
Embrace Louis Farrakahn, Al Sharpton, Barbra Streisand or the Dixie Chicks and you will undoubtedly, and legitimately, have some 'splainin' to do (note the alacrity with which Obama distanced himself from his surrogate father-pastor once the latter's racial politics were liberally quoted); why not Mitt, Pres. Bush or anyone else who brings their religion, or their baggage, into the public sphere? You are the company you keep, or at least Obama was when he recruited black homophobes to shill for him. America won't vote for a Mormon president (our sad belief in our own 'tolerance' notwithstanding) but anyone short of Lucifer himself would occupy the Oval before an avowed atheist would. Imagine the grilling ("when did you first realize you had no morals of any kind?")
Those of us who don't believe are routinely assumed to think that anything goes: no Bible? No rules. Go ahead - steal, rape, rob, cross against the red. Tug on Superman's cape. It's one of the reasons y'all are partially right that we think you're kinda dumb; I've lost track of the heretofore intelligent people at parties who looked at me dumbstruck when I dropped that bomb. It was as if they expected me to strip naked and start drinking baby's blood right after the appetizers.
It's my choice, which I normally exercise, to simply walk away when oh-so-sincerely asked how I sleep at night, being atheist and all. But I'm not running for office. Were I, America would have a right to inquire into any systems of thought (e.g. feminism, the politics of blackness, what the hell, I might yet become born again) for which I demanded deference. Which is the actual point of this little diatribe: all too often, the religious don't want respect, though that's what they say. What they really want is deference. And that journalists, if no one else, should never supply. |
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/11/6311_casting_the_fir.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
