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Lost in Translation
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Lost in Translation Reply with quote

I'm trying to make a 'Diary Tips and Common Mistakes' for our diaries program and some common errors have come up about which I'd like to clear the air. My fellow native-English-speaking ELI and I have made a series we're going to print off on labels and give a sheet to each class which submits diaries so they can peel one off and stick one on. We hope to rope in most of the common repeated mistakes.

So I get to the part about differentiating words like 'fun' and 'funny', 'scared and 'scarey' etc. I asked my co-teach to check these but I'm kicking myself because I fear my lack of confidence in her English, which is really really terrible, means she herself may not have known the answers to these.

So I submit this list in the hopes that some advanced Korean speakers can straighten it out.

THE CONTENTS
Me..............................................Korean co-teacher
Bore 지겨워하다...........................Bore = 지겨운따분한
Bored 지겨워~.............................Bored = 지겨운
Boring 지겨운

Excite 흥분되다
Excited 흥분돼~...........................Excited = 흥분한
Exciting 신나는

Interest 흥미롭다
Interested 흥미로워~....................Interested = 흥미를가진
Interesting 흥미로운......................Interesting = 흥미있는

Setting straight welcome. I'm digging through texts now but it's not like there are a lot of sources for this sort of thing where you can quickly reference. One of the problems is that the postposition particles end the same way as a postposition for another word.
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RACETRAITOR



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Korean coworker told me there is no unique word in Korean for funny, and Koreans consider fun and funny to be the same concept. Not sure if I trust her English either, as apparently she has a high TOEFL score.
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RACETRAITOR wrote:
A Korean coworker told me there is no unique word in Korean for funny, and Koreans consider fun and funny to be the same concept. Not sure if I trust her English either, as apparently she has a high TOEFL score.


She sounds like she's trying to legitimize her own misunderstanding of English. Even I didn't need any help on that one. I use two different Korean words for those(웃긴다 for funny and 젬있다 for fun). They may not be the only ones but they get the point across so they work. I'm not coming down on your reply, I'm glad you made it. I just find this is exactly the type of thing (your Korean co-teacher's reply) I'm trying to cut through. There is a difference.

Actually I just figured out that she is wrong about the verb 'to bore'. But I think the others are more complicated because some of them can have different roles in a sentence.
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samd



Joined: 03 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your Korean language posts vox, keep 'em coming.
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

samd wrote:
I like your Korean language posts vox, keep 'em coming.


Thanks now if just somebody would answer them! LOL

I just figured out that the ~한 suffix always denotes an adjective, so my coteach absolutely misunderstood 'bore' was a verb. But it also reveals that she thinks a lot of these are adjectives. I'll have to lay out some sample sentences for her in the morning.
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Justin Hale



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

웃기다 is to arouse laughter. This is totally distinct from 재미 (fun/enjoyment) as far as I know. English too has concepts - 'to amuse', 'amusing' - which can mean both. I'm convinced that the 'fun = funny' equation by Koreans is the result of being taught English by Koreans who have a tiny, at best, grasp of the English language.

Not sure what to make of the OP because it contains a mixture of descriptive verbs and adjectives. In Korean, adjectives are always accompanied by an object whereas descriptive verbs don't have to be. So one should not mix them up. 재미있다 and 재미있는 are both 'fun' but one is a verb ('to be fun') and one an adjective which must take an object ('a fun activity').

The rule of thumb in English is that '-ed' describes feelings and '-ing' things (I am interested/it is interesting). So, actually, perhaps the Korean adjectives are like '-ing' adjectives and '-ed' more like the descriptive verbs ("aiish - 심심하네" = "jeez, I'm bored").....with the obvious exception that English '-ed' adjectives can also take objects - the bored person, the scared girl, the interested onlookers, the surprised teacher, etc. - but again these are describing feelings and not 'things'.
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JustJohn



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you say funny like strange funny?

I tell my students "this way sounds funny" sometimes, and even when I explain I'm not sure they get it.
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Korlingus



Joined: 01 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustJohn wrote:
How do you say funny like strange funny?

I tell my students "this way sounds funny" sometimes, and even when I explain I'm not sure they get it.


이런 표현이 좀 어색한데...다음번에 이렇게 말해봐요.
This description is a bit akward...try saying it like this next time.
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JustJohn



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helpful, but I'd still like to know the word for strange funny.
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Justin Hale



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustJohn wrote:
Helpful, but I'd still like to know the word for strange funny.


You assume Korean shares English's 'funny' (a) humorous, (b) strange double meaning?

I suggest you don't use the 'funny' as in 'strange' when teaching EFL. Thinking about your own language-use is something 90% of the TEFL folks I've observed need to work on.
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustJohn wrote:
Helpful, but I'd still like to know the word for strange funny.


I think the word you are looking for here is strange.
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JustJohn



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you assume I'm assuming that? I specifically asked for strange funny, as opposed to humorous funny.

The only reason I didn't simply request the word strange is that funny has a slightly different shade of meaning, and strange isn't precisely what I want to say. Strange would suffice though.
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Justin Hale



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustJohn wrote:
Why would you assume I'm assuming that?


Because you said "How do you say funny like strange funny? I'd still like to know the word for strange funny". You presupposed that there exists such an entity in Korean and you asked what it is, as opposed to simply ask "can the Korean word for 'funny' also mean 'a little strange' like 'funny' can in English? If so, what is it?"

Quote:
I specifically asked for strange funny, as opposed to humorous funny.


That's why I assumed what I did. You asked what it is rather than ask if it exists.

Quote:
The only reason I didn't simply request the word strange is that funny has a slightly different shade of meaning


Does it?

Quote:
and strange isn't precisely what I want to say. Strange would suffice though.


Just say strange then. Laughing
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JustJohn



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lessons in logic:

1. Asking for the word that means strange funny does not in any way shape or form imply that the asker believes that there is a word in the other language that shares the dual meaning of funny. It asks "What is the word that has the same meaning as funny does in the specified context?" Nothing more.

2. That doesn't give you any reason to assume that I was looking for a word identically equal to funny in all its meanings either. Opposed to. Different than. The correct inference from this is that I was assuming that they would be different words.

3. Yes, slightly.

4. Tell me how. Razz
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ajgeddes



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

이상하다
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