Korean Job Discussion Forums

[htrain]

OK, pretend you didn't read my other rant... and if you didn't, please don't read it.

A lot of people where I'm from in the States (including Koreans) constantly make accusations of discrimination. We have equal opportunity, affirmative action, all kinds of things in place in an attempt to prevent discrimination. This is basically because we're from places where it's ok to be "different" and it's recognized that you can't control some things.

I know I'm not in my home country and I know this is Korea, BUT... do you think discrimination is fair in Korea? Some of you sit hiring boards and witness people being rejected based on age, being black, not being Christian, or whatever and don't say anything about it... should we in good conscience go along with this? I've heard fellow Americans in Korea justify all of these to me, and I just can't stomach it. I lost major points with my school over an incident involving a black guy not being hired. I know I'm way out of my league and many of you will say this isn't America, but I can't just watch it and not say anything.

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Perfectly legit in Korea: 1.) Sorry, you're too young to work here.
Lawsuit material in the USA: Under the ADEA, it is unlawful to discriminate against a person because of his/her age with respect to any term, condition, or privilege of employment, including hiring, firing, promotion, layoff, compensation, benefits, job assignments, and training.

Perfectly legit in Korea: 2.) Sorry, you're too Irish to work here.
Lawsuit material in the USA: National origin discrimination means treating someone less favorably because he or she comes from a particular place, because of his or her ethnicity or accent, or because it is believed that he or she has a particular ethnic background. National origin discrimination also means treating someone less favorably at work because of marriage or other association with someone of a particular nationality.

Perfectly legit in Korea: 3.) Sorry, you're not Christian.
Lawsuit material in the USA: Employers may not treat employees or applicants more or less favorably because of their religious beliefs or practices - except to the extent a religious accommodation is warranted. For example, an employer may not refuse to hire individuals of a certain religion, may not impose stricter promotion requirements for persons of a certain religion, and may not impose more or different work requirements on an employee because of that employee's religious beliefs or practices.

Perfectly legit in Korea: 4.) Sorry, you're too old to work here.
Lawsuit material in the USA: The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA) protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older from employment discrimination based on age. The ADEA's protections apply to both employees and job applicants.

[Unposter]

I agree with you 100%. There is a lot of discriminatory hiring practices in Korea and yes we should stand up against it. Equal rights are human rights, even for Koreans, even by Koreans.

[Homer]

It happens, no denying that.

Some schools have preferences for hiring that are questionable.....

But, there is a difference between doing nothing and going all out..

I sit on the hiring committee of my university. I have done so for a few years now. I have lobbied for candidates from different backgrounds when they had the qualifications that warranted the lobbying.

You can effect change if you know how to and where to put your efforts....but at the end of the day, it is their country, their rules.

You do realize of course that many employers will simply circumvent complaints of discriminatory hiring practices by saying there were better qualified applicants. No one has a right to go and ask to see the other applicants files....so you end up in a dead end.

Also, in my time here, I have seen quite a few unqualified applicants play the discrimination card when they were not selected. It happened our school twice where a candidate lodged a complaint of discrimination because they were miffed they did not get a job. The catch was that these two people had the minimum qualifications and did very poorly at the interview....so there are two sides to this story and discrimination is not always as clear cut as it is made out to be.

So don't go along with it but please pick your battles and know when you have a leg to stand on. Also, make sure before you pick that battle that you are defending someone who has a valid case....

Ken the 50 year old alcoolic with a spotty employment record will play the discrimination card if he gets rejected for a job....not hiring him is not racist...it is common sense!

Julie the african-american teacher with gold qualifications who gets rejected because the employers cannot see past their own limitations does have a case....and warrants help.

just don't fall into the simplistic trap of painting it all with one broad brush...

[htrain]

[Bibbitybop]

In many US states, there is an "at will" employment law that allows employers to not hire or simply fire an employee for any reason except for demographically discriminatory reasons (race, gender, etc.) But if a man wants to reject or fire a black guy, he just has to make up any other reason and it won't hold up in court (i.e., he seemed disrespectful or lazy).

So maybe it's good that they just tell you straight up in Korea why you aren't hired.


I think it's BS to begin with and I wouldn't want to work for someone who didn't respect me based specifically on age, race, etc.

[htrain]

[Mr. Pink]

Starting ANOTHER thread on pretty much the same topic shows you definitely need to learn to accept the reality of the world around you.

I know you are only 25 and don't have much world experience, however, you WILL learn that no matter which country you live in, there IS discrimination in hiring. It happens in Korea, it happens in North America. The DIFFERENCE is in North America they can't say: you are too young/old/ugly/fat etc. They just use the professional line "The position has been filled." or "We went with someone more qualified."

It is very obvious this bothers you. I suggest go back to the States and try your luck if you think Korea is so racist and discriminating.

[htrain]

[sojourner1]

Well, the job advertisements some hagwons put out there demonstrates just how much corruptions exists in the English hagwon industry in Korea. I would never take a job that mentions any bias other than requiring a 4 year degree and the willingness to come over and teach.

If you take a job that requires a bias such as female only or young blonde or Canadian only, you are asking to be enslaved in a corrupt system and then get done unfairly when it comes to money.

Because of the fact, Korea allows such blatant discimination, it shows a low standard in it's education system. Standards are very low and I didn't expect much more than being paid to come teach without professional credentials or even any training upon hire. No training, just a whitey from America is good enough until month 12 that is. In month 12, you are denigrated and put to shame since you are leaving for a better situation.

Korea needs to clean up it's hagwon private academy industry if it is to benefit from all the Won it's putting into this education. It's OK to hire those without education degrees, but train them, provide professional support, and treat them right without bias. Too much materialistic bias and corruptions.

My Korean friend says that Korea likes the hagwons system since it's teachers try harder than public school teachers. The concept is to put stress on hagwon teachers to produce more results. Fact is, directors take the corrupt practices too far. A little stress is good to keep people motivated, but not corruption, denigration, and discrimination.

[Homer]

sojourner..you make valid points except where you use the ill-chosen term of "enslaved"....in my opinion it drains some credibility from an otherwise very well put together argument....

htrain...it is clear you started this thread in reaction to your recent rejection by a University. That is a completely normal reaction to have. You seem to be an intelligent person and I agree with many of your points here. However, Mr. Pink is not some keg-standing idiot...he has been here before and knows the rules.

He made valid points even if you disagree with them. His point about the difference between North Am and here is 100% true. The difference is mostly in window dressing measures.....

[htrain]

[Homer]

You are really not helping your case here htrain.....even if Mr Pinks comment was not a great one..why fuel the fire....this is where, in my humble opinion, your age shows. (no this is not an insult or a bash, just a statement).

[Tony_Balony]

htrain,

This is criticism aimed directly at you and your endless questions about the world in general.

I worked for a large government institution for a long time and in fact it was a hospital. We had a wide variety of people and those people had a wide varieties of abilities and positions from surgery professors to file clerks and janitors. I had a discussion about life with a file clerk.

His name was Randy, I called him "Randy the Retard" because he was a retard but not to his face and not to anyone else. It was my own dumb little rhyme that batted about in my head like the hook in some popular song.

Randy was mildly retarded. He did his job well and he could be cheerful most of the time but he really did realize he will never get the black sportscar and the pretty girl like the winners do.

I had just been promoted to something called "journeyman" in my specialty area and I was as smug as a little *beep* could be and I owed it all to my college degree. There were 167 people in my division, I was getting paid more than 164. Please note I didn't say "earned".

I let Randy know I deserved my new position because I worked hard and sacrificed and that's exactly what you needed to do to get ahead.
Randy thought for a moment and said this..."People with degrees are supposed to make jobs, not get them". Randy really did floor me with his wisdom. He's right. People with college degrees are often whiny spoiled little brats and worse, useless.

htrain, you have a masters degree. You are now a leader of the world, a true elite and that means your brain weighs more than mine because it has more intelligence stuffed into it. You just aren't coming off sounding or acting like a leader.

[htrain]

[Homer]

Htrain,

Are you interested in a discussion or do you simply want your opinions validated?

If so, go around the back, you will the opinion validating centre. They will stamp your opinions are true and universal and you can walk out of this thread in full confidence....