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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: Evolutionism vs. Creationism in a 3rd and 4th grade class... |
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So, I work at a private school. The dinosaur section came up. I taught my children both ideas and told them it is for them to decide which one is right when they grow up. If they have any questions, to go and ask their parents. Some students asked me my opinion, I told them that my opinion is private. That was it.
THEN....the devout SDA guy finds out about my science lesson. He and the missionary at the school (also SDA) come up with a slide show (67 slides) rebuking any part of evolution what-so-ever. They compile hours of data to present to these children over a span of a couple of weeks. This is all after he, the devout SDA, just finished talking about how no one really knows if the Earth is 6,000 years old or millions of years old
Now...how can a dude just say one can never know, then, come out with an arsenal from which to brainwash the children with? I believe in both but feel it is not my place to tell the children what I believe in nor is it my place to coerce them into believing one or the other. Why do people have a sense of "responsibility" to "tell the truth" when they just got done saying "no one really knows?" 
Just a rant. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Teach English. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I find it ridiculous that in a science class you gave the children the choice between an established scientific theory and a religious theory as if they were the same thing. Do you also do this for plate tectonics? theory of gravity? Relativity? I'm sure there are wackjob religious alternatives to those also. the children deserve the choice i'm sure.. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Teach English. |
I teach in an Immersion program. So, I teach Science "in English". |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| I find it ridiculous that in a science class you gave the children the choice between an established scientific theory and a religious theory as if they were the same thing. Do you also do this for plate tectonics? theory of gravity? Relativity? I'm sure there are wackjob religious alternatives to those also. the children deserve the choice i'm sure.. |
JMO,
I would never presume to think that I know the answer to such a question. I have little knowledge on both ideas, have no training in either one, and see nothing beneficial gained from the students having me "tell them" what is right and what is wrong (in this particular case).
As a result, I will never tell them "what to think". I don't find your insults of religious people relevant to the argument. Your position, as you have so wonderfully illustrated, has no bearings on the issue. I hope you don't teach your subjective view of things in your classroom. That isn't your job. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Teach English. |
I teach in an Immersion program. So, I teach Science "in English". |
Very cool! |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
| Teach English. |
I teach in an Immersion program. So, I teach Science "in English". |
By your own admission, you do not teach Science. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| I would never presume to think that I know the answer to such a question. I have little knowledge on both ideas, have no training in either one, and see nothing beneficial gained from the students having me "tell them" what is right and what is wrong (in this particular case). |
You don't tell them what to think. You tell them what science says.
Creationism has no part in a science classroom as science would have no part in a religion classroom.
If you're teaching science, teach science. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| I find it ridiculous that in a science class you gave the children the choice between an established scientific theory and a religious theory as if they were the same thing. Do you also do this for plate tectonics? theory of gravity? Relativity? I'm sure there are wackjob religious alternatives to those also. the children deserve the choice i'm sure.. |
JMO,
I would never presume to think that I know the answer to such a question. I have little knowledge on both ideas, have no training in either one, and see nothing beneficial gained from the students having me "tell them" what is right and what is wrong (in this particular case).
As a result, I will never tell them "what to think". I don't find your insults of religious people relevant to the argument. Your position, as you have so wonderfully illustrated, has no bearings on the issue. I hope you don't teach your subjective view of things in your classroom. That isn't your job. |
Fact is in a science class you taught religious theology. You may as well have taught that the world is flat(they should have the alternative view after all). Extremely irresponsible.
If you know nothing about it you probably shouldn't be teaching it. It's not about telling them what is right and wrong, it is about teaching science.
When did people start thinking there was a choice between science and religion in a science class. I don't remember being taught evolution in R.E. and nor should I have been. |
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Snowkr
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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What a cool lesson that could become...
Creationism vs Evolution
The students could take sides, get into groups and have it out with one another. I've never really met any Koreans who buy into Evolution but it seems that increasing number of them are becoming quite agnostic.
I'd like to ask my high school students what they think about this idea. I just talked to one girl who said that their textbook doesn't give any detail or discussion of how the earth came into existence.
What a great way to encourage critical thinking in a Korean class!
1. Is it possible that there is no God and we all came to be by accident?
2. Or is it possible that God created monkeys and they developed into humans?
3. Or is it possible that a God who has the power and infinite wisdom to create our earth also created mankind to rule over the earth?
I can see the blank stares now. Bring it on... |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| I would never presume to think that I know the answer to such a question. I have little knowledge on both ideas, have no training in either one, and see nothing beneficial gained from the students having me "tell them" what is right and what is wrong (in this particular case). |
You don't tell them what to think. You tell them what science says.
Creationism has no part in a science classroom as science would have no part in a religion classroom.
If you're teaching science, teach science. |
Evolution and natural selection are science.
Intelligent design is creationism is religion is not science.
NOVA did a wonderful program not long ago on the whole Intelligent Design in the classroom issue, and covered the recent classroom textbook court case. It made ID look silly. They got pwned. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
NOVA did a wonderful program not long ago on the whole Intelligent Design in the classroom issue, and covered the recent classroom textbook court case. It made ID look silly. They got pwned. |
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
Yes they did.
Cubanlord why stop there, sure Rteacher is upset you didn't consider his view point.
From the last part of the documentary
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JUDGE JOHN E. JONES, III: Both defendants and many of the leading proponents of intelligent design make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general.
To be sure, Darwin's theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis, grounded in religion, into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions. The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the intelligent design policy. |
You did your students a great disservice. Although the SDA guy sounds like a dick. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| cubanlord wrote: |
| I would never presume to think that I know the answer to such a question. I have little knowledge on both ideas, have no training in either one, and see nothing beneficial gained from the students having me "tell them" what is right and what is wrong (in this particular case). |
You don't tell them what to think. You tell them what science says.
Creationism has no part in a science classroom as science would have no part in a religion classroom.
If you're teaching science, teach science. |
Sure, I agree. However, when you are employed by an SDA private school and the principal mandates you teach according to what "they" believe, well, you do what you can. |
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jadarite
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Location: Andong, Yeongyang, Seoul, now Pyeongtaek
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The power to reject is just as important as being taught and follow what a teacher teaches. Just because a teacher instructs to think a certain way, you can always reject it. I had many theist friends growing up, and none of my experiences with them made me theist. I am a devote atheist, lol. |
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Woden
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jadarite wrote: |
| The power to reject is just as important as being taught and follow what a teacher teaches. Just because a teacher instructs to think a certain way, you can always reject it. I had many theist friends growing up, and none of my experiences with them made me theist. I am a devote atheist, lol. |
I think the point is that by a teacher giving creationism a platform in the classroom it lends untestable, mythical, unsubstantiated stories credence which in all honesty they in no way deserve.
The argument that science can't explain existence is also a non-starter...before modern science there were no means of science explaining anything in the concrete, yet that didn't mean that faeries and goblins and magic and wizardry were any more real...
...why don't I believe in god? The same reason I don't believe in the tooth faery. |
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