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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
No one's yet addressed the idea, though : IS it different if women do it?
Is it "getting your groove back," or is it economic exploitation in Third World countries. |
If a middle-aged guy flies off to Cuba and "gets his groove back" with a couple of Cuban hotties, is it any different?
Is this a feminist issue? Carribean feminist researchers and scholars have argued that it is...they have argued that it has harmful effects on family life and structure, and on developing economies, in the Carribean. Their arguments can be extended - I guess - to other regions where it occurs, such as Africa.
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| I think MOS is trying to get at the notion that some forms of behavior are considered exploitative if done by men, but not so much so if done by women. |
Yes...** scratches head ** ...and Bobster your statement raises some interesting questions about the relationships between the words "exploitative", "men", and "women". Sometimes people's value judgements about issues like these are a little inconsistent. Some would argue that the relationship is not exploitative if it takes place between male sellers of sex, and women buyers of sex. Some feel that any sexual relationship between First-world men and Third-world women is inherently exploitative, regardless of whether or not money is exchanged.
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| One difference I might cite is that prostitution of women is often mafia-controlled, or otherwise involving pimps, and hence is quite frequently nothing more or less than slavery, and slavery of women by men. I don't think organized crime is interested in what the young men in the Carib are doing with the middle-aged cougars from up north, so maybe I'm wrong. |
True; athough it would be incorrect to state that all female prostitutes in the Third World are controlled by mafia or pimps, I can't think of any cases where the opposite occurs. But Bobster...doesn't that also raise the issue of whether or not the practice should be judged on its own merits, or only in comparison with the opposite gender?
The issue is interesting because it raises some interesting questions about how valid and consistent are our subjective judgements of certain public issues, vis-a-vis men versus women. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The other thing that interests me about it is that it's partly a Canadian myth-versus-reality issue. Being Canadian myself, there is a stereotype among Canadians that we are all "nice" people, who don't invade other countries or start wars or own guns or make nukes or exploit the developing world. However, Canadian banks been heavily involved in the Carribean for a long time, and some of them have a bad reputation down there, which few Canadians know about. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
No one's yet addressed the idea, though : IS it different if women do it?
Is it "getting your groove back," or is it economic exploitation in Third World countries.
I think MOS is trying to get at the notion that some forms of behavior are considered exploitative if done by men, but not so much so if done by women.
One difference I might cite is that prostitution of women is often mafia-controlled, or otherwise involving pimps, and hence is quite frequently nothing more or less than slavery, and slavery of women by men. I don't think organized crime is interested in what the young men in the Carib are doing with the middle-aged cougars from up north, so maybe I'm wrong. |
Get the lingo right it's not pimps. It's Papasams and Momasams. Just like it's not a trick its barfining |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....it's somehow less bad than if a man does it.
This reminds me of a case in my home province (Saskatchewan) where a female teacher was accused of having a lesbian relationship with a junior high school girl. I can't remember the specifics of the case, but I think the girl was 13 or 14.
She lost her job, but nothing else was done.
If a man had done this....he would have been strung up by the ....you know what's. There definitely would have been criminal charges, but because she's a woman, almost nothing was done.
Now, why is this the case? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....
it's somehow less bad than if a man does it. |
Life in this world is rife with double-standards & hypocrisy.
One related example that often comes to mind b-reasts of men vs. women.
Are mens' b-reasts not objects which stroke passion & lust?
Why are not they covered in modest shame?
If it's "ok" for for men to bare their sexy chests in public, why not women?
My understanding is that in Europe, older independent women have long kept younger boy toys for their pleasure & disposal.
Said actually to be even less of a public stigma with these relationship than when the genders, roles & ages are reversed.
Indeed, if so ... why?
( p.s. b-reasts at Dave's is CENSORED )  |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....it's somehow less bad than if a man does it.
This reminds me of a case in my home province (Saskatchewan) where a female teacher was accused of having a lesbian relationship with a junior high school girl. I can't remember the specifics of the case, but I think the girl was 13 or 14.
She lost her job, but nothing else was done.
If a man had done this....he would have been strung up by the ....you know what's. There definitely would have been criminal charges, but because she's a woman, almost nothing was done.
Now, why is this the case? |
It's called institutionalized sexism. And if it had happened in the US, there would have been criminal charges.
There was a similar incident in Nova Scotia a couple of years ago...a female teacher was seen coming naked out of a shower with a female high-school student. Nothing was done about it, and BECAUSE nothing was done about it, a lot of the teachers started a whisper campaign about her. She even had the ^^^^s to lodge a complaint with the provincial human rights commission, complaining that she was harassed because she was a lesbian. Nobody - not the school, not the crown prosecutor's office, not the CBC - had the guts to come right out and ask her, 'Have you ever had sex with a high school student?' Even though there were witnesses. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| If it's "ok" for for men to bare their sexy chests in public, why not women? |
It has been legal in Ontario since 1996. Case law. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....
it's somehow less bad than if a man does it. |
Life in this world is rife with double-standards & hypocrisy.
One related example that often comes to mind b-reasts of men vs. women.
Are mens' b-reasts not objects which stroke passion & lust?
Why are not they covered in modest shame?
If it's "ok" for for men to bare their sexy chests in public, why not women?
My understanding is that in Europe, older independent women have long kept younger boy toys for their pleasure & disposal.
Said actually to be even less of a public stigma with these relationship than when the genders, roles & ages are reversed.
Indeed, if so ... why?
( p.s. b-reasts at Dave's is CENSORED ) |
There are quite a number of places in Europe (beaches) where men and women are allowed to bare their 'chests' in public. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....
it's somehow less bad than if a man does it. |
Life in this world is rife with double-standards & hypocrisy.
One related example that often comes to mind b-reasts of men vs. women.
Are mens' b-reasts not objects which stroke passion & lust?
Why are not they covered in modest shame?
If it's "ok" for for men to bare their sexy chests in public, why not women?
My understanding is that in Europe, older independent women have long kept younger boy toys for their pleasure & disposal.
Said actually to be even less of a public stigma with these relationship than when the genders, roles & ages are reversed.
Indeed, if so ... why?
( p.s. b-reasts at Dave's is CENSORED ) |
There are quite a number of places in Europe (beaches) where men and women are allowed to bare their 'chests' in public. |
I've seen some granny boobs in Phuket |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| It's pretty much old news. It's been a running joke in Quebec comedies for years. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| If it's "ok" for for men to bare their sexy chests in public, why not women? |
It has been legal in Ontario since 1996. Case law. |
twg, chicks with a favourable hip to waist ratio have to fight for their right to pary.
fatasses not so much. |
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okokok
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I don't know how relevant this is to the topic, but I feel there is a general feeling that if a woman does it ....it's somehow less bad than if a man does it.
This reminds me of a case in my home province (Saskatchewan) where a female teacher was accused of having a lesbian relationship with a junior high school girl. I can't remember the specifics of the case, but I think the girl was 13 or 14.
She lost her job, but nothing else was done.
If a man had done this....he would have been strung up by the ....you know what's. There definitely would have been criminal charges, but because she's a woman, almost nothing was done.
Now, why is this the case? |
Sure.
Any Canadian with any idea about hockey will know the name Graham James. He was a coach who got it on with a few players and went to jail for it.
Well, how come the former coach of the Women's National Team had orgies with her players and nothing happened to her other than eventually being asked to move on. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
My understanding is that in Europe, older independent women have long kept younger boy toys for their pleasure & disposal. |
True so true. I've read up on many books on the topic of courtly love starting with the days of Eleanor of the Aquitaine. It was quite normal for an older woman of nobility to be worshiped by younger men who followed them around, fought in their honor and even died in the joust wearing the hanky of the 'lady' he loved. The husbands allowed this and felt a bit honored with their wives being so worshipped in public. The crowds would cheer for the boy whose wit and poetry was spectacular. Or perhaps the Lady would be wooed by his song and so obliged to give him her hand for a kiss. Lots of people think these instances were all just an act, but evidence suggests that it was much more than that but less is the case of intercourse, which was reserved for marriage.
Perhaps those lads on the beaches of Kenya, the Caribbean and elsewhere are no different from the troubadour lads of ages ago. In both cases, they are young and adventurous aiming to woo an older woman in hopes of gaining something: the favor of a woman. And with that favor can come many rewards.
I doubt very seriously that these guys are sex slaves being pimped out by an owner who beats them if they don�t turn their tricks. Naa these guys are free agents doing it out of free will. Not so of the majority of female prostitutes in the developing world, especially in Thailand. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Canadians have made it into the slang lexicon, too. In Barbados, female sex tourism has been dubbed "Canadian secretary syndrome." In Martinique, locals refer to incoming flights of Air Canada as "Air Coucoune" -- French for "Air P u s s y." |
Hilarious! 
There was an article about this last year in Canada about Canadian women doing this in Cuba, I believe.
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| I doubt very seriously that these guys are sex slaves being pimped out by an owner who beats them if they don�t turn their tricks. Naa these guys are free agents doing it out of free will. Not so of the majority of female prostitutes in the developing world, especially in Thailand. |
Probably true about that. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
Perhaps those lads on the beaches of Kenya, the Caribbean and elsewhere are no different from the troubadour lads of ages ago. In both cases, they are young and adventurous aiming to woo an older woman in hopes of gaining something: the favor of a woman. And with that favor can come many rewards.
I doubt very seriously that these guys are sex slaves being pimped out by an owner who beats them if they don�t turn their tricks. Naa these guys are free agents doing it out of free will. Not so of the majority of female prostitutes in the developing world, especially in Thailand. |
Definitely a double standard going on here...
The issue - or at least this thread - is not about what "the guys" are doing. It's about what the female sex tourists are doing. Are they taking advantage of the poverty of the Carribean? Are they having a harmful effect on the societies and economies of that region? Is what they are doing illegal? Under Canadian law, yes.
It's interesting how you seem to feel a need to turn the issue around to a question of judging the male prostitutes. Many people - at least among the politically correct - feel that prostitutes are, by definition, victims. |
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