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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| HA! |
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laconic2
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Wonderful World of ESL
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| What makes it even more telling is the fact that probably some of the countries on the list don't spend 10% annually of the money that Korea does on English education. |
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superdave
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: over there ----->
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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proof that:
a. hogwans don't work
b. spending billions of dollars on language education doesn't work
c. the crap text books used in korea don't work
d. multiple choice language tests don't work
hogwans are businesses, not schools.
koreans try to learn language the same way they learn math.
so much money spent on english education, yet many programs are producing such poor results.
personally, i blame hogwans ... korea is such a competitive country and hogwans are fueling the fire and making billions of dollars doing so. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe we all need to spend more time planning lessons rather than on Daves lol
<thats a joke by the way>
Korea are 105th in the world in English speaking proficiency according to what the EPIK told us at the orientation. Not sure if that is true or not. |
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superdave
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: over there ----->
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| Korea are 105th in the world in English speaking proficiency according to what the EPIK told us at the orientation. Not sure if that is true or not. |
that would be an interesting statistic if you could get your hands on the data source for it.
you know where they pulled that number from??
btw, love your username!!!
ynwa!  |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| superdave wrote: |
proof that:
a. hogwans don't work
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I really have to disagree. At the hagwon where I work at I see my kids improving everyday.
I can have full conversations with them in class. They come here five times per week.
Public schools teaching English is a waste of money in my opinion. How are you going to teach a class of 30+ students a new language?
Hagwon, well effective hagwon that don't let the parents run the ship, are the best way for kids to learn English in the country. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well its not a statistic to be proud of lol so it might be hard to come by. im not sure i can even name 101 countries tbh
yep season is shaping up well but apparently back in blightly the press still refuse to give us any credit. cant wait for agger and alonso's return
| superdave wrote: |
| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| Korea are 105th in the world in English speaking proficiency according to what the EPIK told us at the orientation. Not sure if that is true or not. |
that would be an interesting statistic if you could get your hands on the data source for it.
you know where they pulled that number from??
btw, love your username!!!
ynwa! |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
Hagwon, well effective hagwon that don't let the parents run the ship, are the best way for kids to learn English in the country. |
Anyone want to try an educated guess at how many hagwons have educational integrity and don't allow the parents to run the ship? I'm throwing 5% out there, and I think that's quite a generous estimate. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
| superdave wrote: |
proof that:
a. hogwans don't work
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I really have to disagree. At the hagwon where I work at I see my kids improving everyday.
I can have full conversations with them in class. They come here five times per week.
Public schools teaching English is a waste of money in my opinion. How are you going to teach a class of 30+ students a new language?
Hagwon, well effective hagwon that don't let the parents run the ship, are the best way for kids to learn English in the country. |
At my old hagwon parents were paying 10,000 won per hour. In a class of ten the hagwon was collecting 100,000 won per hour. I was getting 20,000 won. Most of the money was being wasted on buses, secretaries, rent, and hagwon bosses.
How much does it cost to have your kid learn English in a public school? Nothing except your tax dollars.
Maybe public schools need English class sizes of 10 or 12 students. |
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DRAMA OVERKILL
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| laconic2 wrote: |
| What makes it even more telling is the fact that probably some of the countries on the list don't spend 10% annually of the money that Korea does on English education. |
Exactly. Does that reflect badly upon Korean people or reflect badly upon us??? US, of course (  )!!
10 years from now when Korean people still suck at speaking English (there will be some improvement of course), who do you think they will point their fingers at?? Themselves for designing and implementing inferior language programs, or us, the ones who get paid to teach their curriculums?? |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Believe it or not, I think the solution is more hakwons not less hakwons, or more after school programs.
The college enterence exam, non-communicative public school classrooms and the reliance on the TOEIC exam are the two prime barriers for Koreans to communicate in English. The other is that they don't believe they can talk to each other in English. As long as they believe that last point, FTs are gold.
There are Koreans who speak English and there are Koreans who do not speak English. Those who care, take communicative oriented classes such as at hakwons can and do learn to speak English. For those who do not see English as necessary and think learning English is a fill in the blank exercise, well, their communicative skills are lacking.
It is their choice.
The communicative approach does work. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't they just cheat. Koreans are masters of cheating. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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I work in a huge elementary school with 10 classes per grade. I am the sole NST, so I only see each class once per fortnight. In between my classes, they are with a Korean teacher for English. There is really only very little I can do with this kind of schedule, so the kids need hagwons and private tutors to progress.
To be honest, I don't really see any point in employing me. A school this size needs at least two NSTs. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| To be honest, I don't really see any point in employing me. A school this size needs at least two NSTs. |
Such schools need 5 NSETs and 0 KETs.
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