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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: Korea tops reading list. |
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excitinghead
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Something about that survey just does not make sense. How do they rank reading ability? Literacy? Well, if you have the simplist alphabet, of course literacy rates will be higher. Israel is below average in both maths and reading - yet who has more published academics in prestigious journals, Korea or Israel? I suspect the country with 1/10 the other's population does. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Something about that survey just does not make sense. How do they rank reading ability? Literacy? Well, if you have the simplist alphabet, of course literacy rates will be higher. Israel is below average in both maths and reading - yet who has more published academics in prestigious journals, Korea or Israel? I suspect the country with 1/10 the other's population does. |
The survey results were for tests given to 15 year olds and I'm pretty sure not many 15 year olds in either Korea or Israel have published in prestigious journals. Anyway, they're looking at the literacy of the overall population of 15 year olds, not at the literacy of a minority of academic elites. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Something about that survey just does not make sense. How do they rank reading ability? Literacy? Well, if you have the simplist alphabet, of course literacy rates will be higher. Israel is below average in both maths and reading - yet who has more published academics in prestigious journals, Korea or Israel? I suspect the country with 1/10 the other's population does. |
The survey results were for tests given to 15 year olds and I'm pretty sure not many 15 year olds in either Korea or Israel have published in prestigious journals. Anyway, they're looking at the literacy of the overall population of 15 year olds, not at the literacy of a minority of academic elites. |
What I'm saying is look at what the two countries go on to produce (and attract). And I'm pretty sure I can guess which countries 15-year-olds would win an English test. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
What I'm saying is look at what the two countries go on to produce (and attract). And I'm pretty sure I can guess which countries 15-year-olds would win an English test. |
You guys do realize that these tests are done in their own language... |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Something about that survey just does not make sense. How do they rank reading ability? Literacy? Well, if you have the simplist alphabet, of course literacy rates will be higher. Israel is below average in both maths and reading - yet who has more published academics in prestigious journals, Korea or Israel? I suspect the country with 1/10 the other's population does. |
The survey results were for tests given to 15 year olds and I'm pretty sure not many 15 year olds in either Korea or Israel have published in prestigious journals. Anyway, they're looking at the literacy of the overall population of 15 year olds, not at the literacy of a minority of academic elites. |
What I'm saying is look at what the two countries go on to produce (and attract). And I'm pretty sure I can guess which countries 15-year-olds would win an English test. |
What you said was: "Something about that survey just does not make sense." Since they are looking at 15 year olds, what they go on to produce is irrelevant . Furthermore, the achievement of 45 year old (or any other age) academics says nothing about the literacy level of the general population. Likewise their English skills are irrelevant to their literacy level in their native language. It seems to be your post that doesn't make any sense. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Something about that survey just does not make sense. How do they rank reading ability? Literacy? Well, if you have the simplist alphabet, of course literacy rates will be higher. Israel is below average in both maths and reading - yet who has more published academics in prestigious journals, Korea or Israel? I suspect the country with 1/10 the other's population does. |
The survey results were for tests given to 15 year olds and I'm pretty sure not many 15 year olds in either Korea or Israel have published in prestigious journals. Anyway, they're looking at the literacy of the overall population of 15 year olds, not at the literacy of a minority of academic elites. |
What I'm saying is look at what the two countries go on to produce (and attract). And I'm pretty sure I can guess which countries 15-year-olds would win an English test. |
What you said was: "Something about that survey just does not make sense." Since they are looking at 15 year olds, what they go on to produce is irrelevant . Furthermore, the achievement of 45 year old (or any other age) academics says nothing about the literacy level of the general population. Likewise their English skills are irrelevant to their literacy level in their native language. It seems to be your post that doesn't make any sense. |
Well, I'm trying ot make two points at once. The first is that a survey that puts Korea at the top and Israel near the bottom in reading is likely flawed. The second is that literacy rates are not sufficient indicators of reading ability. There's no way one can compare Hanguel to Hebrew, and that Koreans have a higher rate of literacy is the result of King Sejeong's advisors and mid-twentieth century Zionists, not educational systems. It would be interesting to ask 15-year-olds in both countries what books they've read in the past year. I'm sure that manga comic books would make a strong showing. |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. For every one Korean I see reading on the subway I see thirty messing about with their cell phones. Another twenty are sleeping. This is not a reading culture, particularly so since reading is usually a 'solitary' activity. Koreans must operate in groups. When I taught college here about 50% handed in 'book reviews' of, well, comic books.  They may well be literate (only a clown could fail to learn hangeul), but they don't excel at reading. Look how ignorant they are of so many subjects, and the external world in general. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I delight reading so much generalized garbage. Much on this thread. I especially love reading it when I'm in Christmas good cheer! Like this....
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| Look how ignorant they are of so many subjects, and the external world in general. |
Bingo, you have to get out more!
DD |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Some people are so blinded by their hate (for whatever reason) that they can't even look at a simple survey for what it is. REading culture? English? Published articles? This is about one simple thing. Korean's have a high literacy rate. Something that supposed English teachers should understand. It means that Koreans can read and write in their own language at a higher rate than others. For whatever reason. Fin. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| tsgarp wrote: |
| Some people are so blinded by their hate (for whatever reason) that they can't even look at a simple survey for what it is. REading culture? English? Published articles? This is about one simple thing. Korean's have a high literacy rate. Something that supposed English teachers should understand. It means that Koreans can read and write in their own language at a higher rate than others. For whatever reason. Fin. |
But it isn't an evaluation of literacy; it's an evaluation of reading skills. It's like saying Americans are healthy because 99% of them can walk at least a little bit. So what? |
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anyway
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| tsgarp wrote: |
| Some people are so blinded by their hate (for whatever reason) that they can't even look at a simple survey for what it is. REading culture? English? Published articles? This is about one simple thing. Korean's have a high literacy rate. Something that supposed English teachers should understand. It means that Koreans can read and write in their own language at a higher rate than others. For whatever reason. Fin. |
But it isn't an evaluation of literacy; it's an evaluation of reading skills. It's like saying Americans are healthy because 99% of them can walk at least a little bit. So what? |
Quite right. We shouldn't confuse their ability to read with their apparent lack of interest in doing so. |
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mikekim
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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LOL tests with no repercussions. I picked AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and went out for recess. I'm sure North American 15 year old have better things to do than fill out this survey crap, whereas 15 year old Koreans have nothing better to do.
And I'm sure Korean teachers placed the whole pride propoganda speech for the reading portion. Hangul must win, or you die.
Oh yeah and SK bombed teh science test 17th. Eat it bitches. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
The first is that a survey that puts Korea at the top and Israel near the bottom in reading is likely flawed. |
But the survey does no such thing. It says nothing about the reading skills of the general population. It applies only to 15 year olds and more specifically to the group of 15 year olds that most recently took the test. The test results speak for themselves, it is more likely that it is your opinion that is flawed and prejudiced.
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
The second is that literacy rates are not sufficient indicators of reading ability. |
Obviously, but as far as I can see, no one is suggesting otherwise.
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
There's no way one can compare Hanguel to Hebrew, and that Koreans have a higher rate of literacy is the result of King Sejeong's advisors and mid-twentieth century Zionists, not educational systems. |
Hangul may make it easier to pronounce what is being read but I don't see that it offers any advantage in understanding what is meant. I can read pretty much anything in Hangul without understanding 90% of the meaning. Furthermore, doesn't it seem a bit odd to first deny that Koreans have better reading skills and then turn around and explain that the reason they have better reading skills is because Hangul is so easy? And who said anything about higher literacy rates? You yourself said: "But it isn't an evaluation of literacy; it's an evaluation of reading skills."
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
It would be interesting to ask 15-year-olds in both countries what books they've read in the past year. I'm sure that manga comic books would make a strong showing. |
Obviously, what Koreans choose to read, and whether they choose to read says nothing about their ability and comprehension when they do read.
P.S. You can see some of the sample questions here: http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/Items.asp?sub=yes&SectionID=1&CatID=1 |
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