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| Are Korean kids "worse" than the rest? |
| No North American-style "issues" like ADHD: these kids are angels in comparison |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| Kids will be kids: a little rowdiness can be expected |
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48% |
[ 12 ] |
| There's a reason they call Korean English schools "hell-wans" |
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40% |
[ 10 ] |
| On my good days I pray for death |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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anae
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: cowtown
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Come prepared to be in school?
Parents expectations: In my second month in Korea I lost a student because I indicated on his report card that his behaviour was "satisfactory". This was the 2nd of 5 possible levels. I was being extremely generous not using the "needs improvement" column. The parent said that disciplining the boy had nothing to do with her and she didn't want to hear about it. The school didn't seem to think this was an isolated incident. We were never allowed to report on behaviour again. They reprinted all the report cards with that category missing. |
Yes I teach in the public system. I can teach everything from high needs kids (homeless to refugee) in the morning to high needs parents (aka Watch Out for Moms) in the afternoon. What I mean by prepared to be in school is that they often have held a pencil, know about their name at least in Korean (recognize it if not write it), know how books work, have used scissors, and know the alphabet song if not all the letters. In my experience, listening to Korean moms talk to their kids before leaving the classroom- they are saying things like listen to your teacher well and study hard. I never hear Canadian moms saying the same thing. The closest I have heard is be good, but their kid usually has no idea what that means.
I think what you were referring to was the lack of preparation of kids for after school programs "hogwans" in regards to materials and behaviour expectations. I stopped comparing the behaviour of Canadian kids to Korean kids after my first few months. I really don't think you would have much co-operation with Canadian kids if you forced them to come to another school after school to take extra French lessons. You would have very similar problems. Kids are tired of not being able to socialize with their friends and have some down time not associated with listening to another adult.
As for parents not wanting to disciplin their children or have their children disciplined, don't get me started on Canada. The "My son never lies," "That's not what my daughter said happened," "We let our children decide if they are going to attend detention," "We don't try and regulate the kind of language our daughter uses - **** is just an expression of how she was feeling right then," "We tell our son if someone hits him, he is to hit back." |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I think what you were referring to was the lack of preparation of kids for after school programs "hogwans" in regards to materials and behaviour expectations. I stopped comparing the behaviour of Canadian kids to Korean kids after my first few months. I really don't think you would have much co-operation with Canadian kids if you forced them to come to another school after school to take extra French lessons. You would have very similar problems. Kids are tired of not being able to socialize with their friends and have some down time not associated with listening to another adult.
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Good point. |
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Joe Thanks
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Dudleyville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Zed wrote: |
Joe, interesting and insightful post especially since I am considering a move to Taiwan.
What is 'buxiban'? |
Same as "hogwon."
Where in Taiwan?
I recommend Hsinchu. Everything is centrally located and the expats are pretty cool. It's not far from Taipei and Taichung. Small enough to get your head together but big enough to have things to do.
Taiwanese don't party like Koreans, so your freindships with locals will probably be of a smaller scale, save romance.
On that point go to Taichung then. Taichung was better for the romance. Hsinchu has it but it's short-term.
You WILL drive unless you live in Taipei. 300-$500 US for a good scooter, used.
Oh - hey, have fun. I miss Taiwan. It has its bad side but it has a lot of good sides to it too.
Cheers,
Joe |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:21 pm Post subject: Adventureman.... |
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| A-man: My old nemesis, what do you think of teaching in Korea now? You're w/EPIK, right? You have the RIGHT to have the Korean co-teacher in the class w/you. If you aren't comfortable teaching the class alone, I advise you to BLOODY WELL insist on having a co-teacher in your lesson. Cheers. |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by adventureman on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Austin
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:16 pm Post subject: Too bad... |
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Advent,
Sorry to read about the "reality" that is setting in for you.
You are welcome to give me a shout, if you would like some strategies on how to better manage your students.
Would you care to share how you began with your students and your colleagues?
What kind of classroom management methods did you establish with your students during the honeymoon period? How proactive have you been in establishing a positive work environment for yourself?
Not that it matters, but all of the new recruits in our area are doing really well. Moreover, I have spoken to others in different regions, and none of them expressed the type of aggrevation that you have experienced.
Let us hope that it is an isolated event, the exception and not the rule.
By the way, the contract does not state that our Korean colleagues must be in the classroom with us. Our duties include conducting "English conversational classes for Korean teachers and students." However, the gem that covers everything is the last, "to perform other duties as designated by Employer." Making an issue with your coworkers about their presence in your class is misguided.
You are at a very critical juncture in your stay. I would suggest avoiding others that are bitter and miserable, as misery does love company, but it does little to improve one's situation.
Again, my offer is there if you should want to take it.
Do not lose perspective and remain positive. |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by adventureman on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Austin
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:31 pm Post subject: Not you... |
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Advent,
I was not suggesting that you were the "bitter and miserable" one. Rather, I was trying to caution you from taking advice from one that is bitter and miserable, as I doubt words from that perspective will help you to remedy your situation.
I agree with your assertion that comparisons are a waste of time.
Understanding the mistakes that you have admitted to already making will only serve to improve your effectiveness as a teacher. Unfortunately, undoing what has been done will not be easy, but it is completely within your reach (your wit and humor will aid you greatly).
Please do not misunderstand me on the coworker issue. It is not that I do not recognize that you need assistance. It is in the way you solve your situation that I take issue.
If you are thought to be incompetent by your colleagues by your need for assistance, you "demand" things from your contract, etc., your year is going to continue to be painful.
There are more ways to improve your situation without taking the route that makes you look like a Dumb Funk.
We both know that kids will be kids, but ask yourself why your students are acting up. If you can address those issues, you can begin to improve your classroom and your effectiveness as a teacher.
I hope you decide to call.
Be well,
Austin
Last edited by Austin on Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Not you... |
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Last edited by adventureman on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Someone should make the above post a sticky on the problems you will potentially face when you come here. Good list...but over time you will adapt.
2,3,4,5,8,9,14 +15 will become easier over time. I think it takes a good year to get into the swing and find your feet and then you will have a pretty good idea on how to control students, basic language usage, teaching strategies, etc.. hang in there |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| we have speculated the reasons being that korean children are emotionally spoiled. they are raised in such a way that they are terribly self focused. also, the parents of one child do not hold those of other's accountable for their children's actions like we do stateside. |
You know after getting a punch to the stomach, a kick to the shins and my foot stamped by a rather large twelve year old because I made him leave his large bag of candy outside the classroom I'm starting to agree with that.
Carrying on like a 6 year old when your twelve suggests that this mother lets her son run wild.
CLG |
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Austin
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject: Advent... |
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Advent,
About your list...
1) When you say you were not given a chance to establish any sort of "real" rapport with your students, what do you mean?
Every moment at school is an opportunity, is it not?
2) Can you blame EPIK for you not being able to speak Korean?
3, 4, & 5) Do you really need to be able to give grades, tests, or homework to be able to manage a large number of students?
6) By showing concern and consideration for your students, you can gain the respect of your students.
The appearance of respect is far different than genuine respect.
7) Why do you consider being "not ethnically Korean" as a hinderance?
8) Learn their names, if you think it is important.
9) How did you think things were going to be before entering the program?
Knowing your language limits, how did you envision "teaching" and "learning" to take place?
10) Seeing a large number of students once a week can be an adjustment, but there are many positives, such as being able to spend more time on creating effective lessons, exposing a larger number of students to native pronunciation, etc.
11) Sorry, Advent, but I think you might need to rethink this one.
Students have to voluntarily summit to you. You can not "control" any person without their consent. Thinking otherwise is dangerous and will only lead you to frustration.
12) Why do you view being seen as a "novelty" as a negative?
13) Making the small amount of time your students are exposed to you an interesting and educational event does not need to be complicated.
14) Why would you want your students to be quiet for your class? If you already have them speaking, you are closer to success than you think! Channel their energy from Korean into English and...
15) That is your responsibility.
16) How about focusing on rewards and positive reinforcement, instead of concerning yourself with doling out punishment?
You are an intelligent guy. Unfortunately, your list can become a potential list of excuses, rather than a list of reasons. There are so many tools and tricks to help keep your kids on-task and to minimize their off-task behavior, I suggest you try a few and see what works best for you.
Again, my offer still stands. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:31 am Post subject: Re: Not you... |
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I'll try to chime in as well, since I'm in almost exactly the same situation as adventureman, with only the grade level and when I started being different.
| adventureman wrote: |
| 1.Thrown to the wolves halfway into the year, not given any chance to establish any sort of real repore with the students |
Rapport? I've found a lot of strange ways to establish a rapport with students. It's very important, and I can't stress this enough, it's my #1 rule, but it's very important to never ever have a sarcastic attitude with your students. They can feel your vibes better than even you can at times, and will pick up on your distaste post-haste.
Another way to build rapport is to give students nicknames(not something necessarily bad). I've got one student who's nicknamed "Manager", another who's nicknamed Ring Girl(looks like the chick from Ring sometimes), so on.
Talk to your students outside of class time. Give the little head nod. If students come into your office, do something cool that will interest them(whether it be looking at a website for your favorite Korean pop group or studying Korean).
Definitely learn some info about wrestling for the boys. 9 out of 10 classes of boys will love you by default if you know who the Rock, Kane, and HHH are. They will worship you if you make regular references to wrestling during class. They will make you a god if you can actually (safely!) execute a clothesline. Okay, so I'm exaggerating about the last two parts...
Another hit for getting students to like you is to start off like you're going to punish them, and let them off easy in personal quarters. Say a student did something way out of line, like giving the middle finger or cursing. I mention that I'm going to take them to the Korean teacher for a stern talking to, and start walking them to the office after class, telling them what I have to say all the while. When we approach the door, I suddenly finish up and tell them to get back to class. They think they were let off easy, and I never had any intention of taking them to the coteacher in the first place.
Needless to say, a rapport is something that will take the entire year to develop, and doesn't necessarily mean that class will be any easier.
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| 2. Can't speak Korean |
Speaking Korean occasionally can help students develop respect for you.
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| 3. Can't give grades |
I can give "grades", but no one takes them seriously. Students absolutely SPAZ over my bonus points, though, which I never actually worked out. I basically give students who participate bonus points during certain exercises. They don't know what they get for getting bonus points, but many students love getting them.
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| 4. Can't give tests |
Don't need to. Tests are already given by the Korean teachers. You only see students once a week, so you'd be wasting time with anything other than a pop quiz.
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| 5. Can't assign homework |
Not in the traditional sense. I often assign work over the course of a couple of weeks in the form of English projects. Some students are hardworking, and take it home and work on it without my asking, and some students work on it during classes. Some students don't do it, and this affects that oft-ignored grading system I have. No big deal.
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| 6. Don't fit into confucian hiearchy in anyway, thus not viewed in the same way Korean teachers are...this translates into 1/10th the respect |
This is only important in dealing with your coteachers. In dealing with your students, it's not necessary.
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| 7. Not ethnically Korean |
See above. If they wanted an ethnic Korean, they would've hired a gyopo(no offense intended).
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| 8. Don't know names |
You'll never learn 840 names. I still know about 3 names on average per class, even when students have a nickname. In some classes, I know no names. There's no way to overcome this problem unless your school changes the teaching system for you.
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| 9. Can't communicate with vast majority of students beyond "hello" due to language barrier, some students (usually ones that don't care about learning English to begin with) can't understand things due to lack of translation availbilty that should be availble for me for such a rudimentary age group to help get certain concepts acress |
I have the same problem here. Just remember that you don't have to ensure that every student learns all of the material everyday. Teaching is 50% being a good teacher, and 50% having interested students. That's my theory, anyways. Learning some very basic Korean(like the words for writing, reading, speaking, doing, so on) can alleviate some of the stress. I do feel that a coteacher can help a lot, though it will lessen their chances to improve their listening. It's a balance that you have to find from class to class.
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| 10. 840 studnets a week, only see same group of students once a week |
This is by far your biggest difficulty. I'm having the same stress from the same problem. I have 26 different classes that I see once a week. The simple truth is that there is very little I can hope to accomplish from this set-up. So I feel for you here...
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| 11. large classes, know that's its harder for me to control them and know they can get away with more |
Do a little research on large class management techniques. I need to do it, too. I tend to use a point system with my classes. I give them a countdown when they get noisy, and if I reach zero, they get a point. They also get a point for speaking Korean directly to me, among other rules. For discipline when they do something outside of the stated rules(I only have 4 stated rules), the punishment usually consists of me having a talk with them outside of the class when I get a chance. This comes with the rapport that's been built, however.
Also keep in mind the other factors that affect a child's behavior. 1st period consists of sleepy students who will be less willing to talk, and 4th period students are just thinking about lunch. 5th period students are wound up from the playground, and 6th period students are wound up because school's almost finished. On certain types of days, all of the students will adopt a different behavior. Keep aware of the daily goings-on at your school, because your students could simply be grouchy because they lost a dodgeball game before your class. Happened to me.
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| 12. students don't spend enough time with me on a one-to-one basis to break through "novelty" factor |
The only real solutions I've found for this are after-school classes and catching students either in the hallway or in the office. Otherwise, as per Korean learning style, getting one-to-one with a student goes against the classroom mechanics.
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| 13. students already pushed too far everday with rote studying in other areas of their life and lack "cool-down" and play time |
This gives you the perfect excuse to use more activities that appear to be games. Even "20 questions" can be turned into a competitive 45 minutes with bonus points or a snack as an award.
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| 14. Korean teachers don't stress to them the importance of being quiet for my class |
I mentioned a much better technique for keeping students quiet earlier. Countdown to zero. If the students are being generally good, though, but just seem energetic, you may want to have them put their heads down for a minute or two and stay quiet.
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| 15. Inexperince teaching (something I take fault for) |
Yea, but look at it this way...after your year here, you'll be vastly more experienced, especially if you milk the situation for everything it's worth.
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| 16. Can't punish studnets same way Korean teachers can, and they are fully aware of this..... |
Answered this one before. Some Korean teachers still use corporal punishment. If you have to punish them, it should be in your own Western style. Once you've gotten their respect, most students will not enjoy your own punishments just as much as the Korean teachers' punishments, because they know that they have disappointed you. It takes a while to get to this stage. |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by adventureman on Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Don't you have a 10-minute break in between classes?
I'm expected to teach the same lesson to 13 classes each week, and another lesson to another 13 classes. So my lesson planning makes it slightly easier. If you don't have this situation, I really feel for you, since it basically means you would have to come in an hour before work and plan all of your lessons.
The system I have works well enough; I only have 2 unruly classes, and every class is going to have their off days, for whatever reasons. |
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