Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Czarjorge]

Is the US headed for Civil War?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but I'm getting increasingly worried. And in the interest of complete disclosure I do think we, as a people, should have done more about Bush stealing the 2000 election. Would I have advocated civil war at that point, NO, emphatically NO. (And I'm not just writing that for the Feds who might be reading this post given that there might be enough key words to illicit eyes.)

But given that civil unrest and civil disobedience seem to be synonymous with terrorism in the eyes of the current administration what other direction do these things go? In the lexicon of the times what the founding fathers did was terrorism. And in our times the definition of terrorism has been widened so much that writing this email might qualify. (Hence the statement above.)

I'm not a doomsayer, and I have no interest in fearmongering, but I want to have this discussion. So what does everyone think?

Are the citizens of the US so complacent now that it would never happen?

Where would Canada fall? Mexico? Would they be neutral of take sides? Would they be ready and willing to accept the massive influx of refugees?

Where would our allies and Nato stand?

Is the election of a non-establishment candidate going to change anything? Would Obama be able to bring us back together, or would he, like alot of people have supposed, be the first black President to be assassinated in office? Would Hillary just maintain the status quo and in the end of things be no different that Bush? Would Paul or Kucinich really be a cure?

Alot of people on this board want to be talking, or typing, heads so lets hear it.

[VanIslander]

deleted

leaving this discussion to americans

[mindmetoo]

I would think the only thing that would prompt another civil war is if states tried to secede. I would think that if the supreme court ever ruled in favor of gay marriage that might cause some states to threaten to secede.

[sojourner1]

I often wondered if the US will come to a boiling point since things are not working for the majority of the people since it's no longer, "By the people, for the people." Yes, complacency is a huge problem, but that stops when people don't have adequate food and housing to be comfortable in front of their TV's due to economic problems as result of a country system that is failing them. I am not saying people should live a life of being comfortable in front of their TV's, but I am saying the government should support and represent the people in an honorable manner that facilitates an economy that utilizes the peoples' abilities while giving them adequate opportunities. The American government is not representing America in it's actions outside of the country in a manner that is congruent with most Americans values such as in Iraq.

Civil rebellion and war can and will happen, given time. I sure hope I don't have to go home to a big mess some day. I know it's already a big fat mess, but it could be worse and probably will get worse.

[mistermasan]

there will not be another US civil war. the centralized power won't permit it. anybody who gets lippy gets crushed.

maybe in 100 years the hispanic southwest'll want to go back to mexico (ala la raza folks) but by then the north american union will be all pervasive and there will be as much difference between mexico and canada and the US as there is difference between missouri, iowa and kansas today.

sit back and enjoy the ride. remember, NAFTA's HQ is in mexico.

[Czarjorge]

Wow, Van, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? (And other such cliches.) I don't think I've read a particularly stupid post from you until now.

No, I'm not from the South. I'm from the North Midwest. I don't even go south of the Mason-Dixon if I can help it.

And I'm not being cheeky. I'm growing increasingly worried that my country is going in a very bad direction. Alot of people on this board have been talking about Naomi Wolf's book lately. Do you really think that "Americans" would bend over and take it like the German gentry did? I don't think so. A fascist takeover of the government, the suspension of habeas corpus for citizens, etc. would precipitate secession I think. Why would California take that? They're economy is large enough to stand alone, that alone is reason not to go along with any totalitarianization of US.

Maybe my terminology is off. Assuming Wolf's right and in five years the US becomes a fascist state. Would you not call an armed social uprising against the government a civil war? Most civil wars aren't as clean cut as the last one in the US.

[keysbottles]

I was in Atlanta a few years ago and listening to the local Zoo Crew. Their subject was about the current Yankee invasion of Ga.
Someone called in and asked when the south was going to stop fighting
the C/War,,,their answer was, "when we win". That was a joke, don't
flame me.

I agree with mindmetoo that it would come from States seceding. I
disagree gay marriage, abortion or other hot issues being a strong
enough catalyst for this to happen but can you imagine a time that the
Mexican population of some of the western States would be large enough
to vote for secession?

[mistermasan]

bush federalized the national guard. each state previously had control over its guard unit. bush took that away.

civil war against tanks? ain't gonna happen. america is old, gray and fat. the baby boomers (the dominant demographic) ain't gonna let anything get in the way of their pension checks.

now, take those 3,000,000 guys out of the prisons...

[bacasper]

Instead of "civil war," don't you mean "revolution?"

Despite how pissed off people are, from the coup d'etat that was the JFK execution to Bush stealing the 2000 election and the suspicions regarding 9/11, and everything in between, right now too many people are still too comfortable with their own homes, big cars, and big screen TVs. However, the number of such people, I believe, is declining, and the coming recession/depression just may jolt enough of them into becoming a critical mass.

[atomic42]

The State Dept currently contracts three private military companies to watch the back of the Feds, a few higher ups have probably been made aware of the continuing redesign of the country. You'd have to be blind, deaf and stupid not to see where we're headed.

[djsmnc]

You guys need to visit home and live complacently again for awhile before you get the idea that a civil war is going to happen anytime soon.

[Czarjorge]

I'm actually living a wildly complacent life in the States right now.
I quit my job at the end of summer and moved in with my Dad as my lease was ending and his garage will be storing my things while I'm in Korea. Then the new regulation stuff came down, and I'm having a good time just drinking and hanging out, so I haven't left yet. I'm living the definition of a complacent life. Yet I raised the question.

I'm probably not the best example of complacency as free time gives me more time to read and think which lead to the OP. But the supposition is the direct result of having conversations with people I've run into in my daily life.

My dumb ass brother-in-law, whose father is a conspiracy nut so that colors this a bit, has purchased two handguns because he is "nervous about what's going on." This is a guy who barely graduated high school and is not a deep thinker by any means. And my sister, his wife, is a bit of a republican and not prone to philosophical thought by any means. They're both nervous.

In fact everyone but my father seems a little on edge. He is a beauracrat, and doesn't rattle easy. And a month ago I would have agreed with him. Hell, even John Edwards new rhetoric seems to be anticipating a class war.

If the economy collapses things might change alot in a short period of time. I hope I'm out of the country by then.

[Tony_Balony]

[Ya-ta Boy]

Civil wars needn't be about secession. The Roman Republic had a series of civil wars and secession didn't play a part in any of them (if I remember correctly). The English Civil War (Oliver Cromwell) wasn't about secession. Most civil wars are about power grabs.

I'm fairly optimistic that a year from now we'll have elected an administration that will repeal the missteps of the last 8 years. This Bush administration will be seen as the highwater mark of the conservative reaction and things will revert to the direction things were going in the 60's--progressive social legislation.

One of the major advantages of our system is having regularly scheduled elections. I think it's very hard to convince the average person to go out and risk getting killed on the barricades when there is an election coming up where things can be changed.

Right now there is a huge pool of disaffected people. Whoever the next president is is going to have to deal with that. If he/she fails, then there could be a problem.

On another thread the other day I mentioned that a large proportion of those disaffected:

a) are armed to the teeth
b) admire Guy Fawkes (who tried to blow up Parliament)
c) have started their own currency system with a pile of gold in Idaho
d) can raise $4 million dollars in a day on the internet
and e) are contemptuous of government

If there is going to be a civil war, I think it will come from that direction.

[cazador83]