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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
"Among the 1,649 sex offenders released from the Arizona prison system to the supervision of state parole officers, 70% eventually returned to prison with a NEW felony conviction for a sex crime..."
(Capitals are mine)
That's (according to my math) roughly 1154 sex offenders who reoffended, a tad over a third of the total.
The 5.5% figure is for a follow up period of only 6.85 years |
It also says:
"Rates of return with a new felony conviction varied by original committing offense: ...5.0% for child molestation, 5.0% for sexual abuse, and 3.5% for sexual conduct with a minor." This is an average of 4.5%.
"0.5% returned with a new felony conviction for a sex crime within one year of release, 2.0% within two years, 3.4% within three years, 4.6% within four years, 5. 1 % within five years, 6. 0% within six years, 6.7% within seven years, 7. 1 % within eight years, 7.2% within nine years, 7.8% within ten years, 7.9% within eleven years, and 8.7% within twelve years."
Bold is mine. This particular study is confusing. I mean, how do they go from 8.7% at 12 years to 70% eventually? I wonder if there is an error here. I doubt they followed these people for decades. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
I must have read something more into the suggestive elision.
I find the whole attitude that people have to sex offenders - and don't get me wrong, I find their crimes utterly reprehensible - is largely the product of fear, misunderstanding and a desire to distance oneself from that which we find reprehensible, and in the final analysis adds nothing to our understaning, and adds nothing to eradicating the problem. I believe such crimes occur through a lack of civilisation, and we can evolve beyond them. THey are not inherently human. But we cannot move beyond them whilst the perpetrators are portrayed as 'inhuman monsters' who deserve punishments that were once freely handed down for heresy, sedition, rebellion, theft, blasphemy, and other medieval crimes no longer thus punished. Reading about such degradation and criminality as the crimes currently under discussion tantalises us in the most abject way, hence it continues to be fodder for the press, and we love to discuss and compete on our disgust and abjection whilst poring over the stories for further lurid details, feeding the fire more. Not until we give up the self-indulgent pleasure of our histrionic outrage and disgust will our understanding of the motivations and causes of such miserable criminality be furthered.
Okay? |
I've now realized how truly stupid you are. As I stated before, you have no children and are obviously incapable of sympathizing with the victim in this matter. Instead, you worry about the abuse levied at the offender and worry if they are being treated in a barbaric way.
I've now seen you in a number of threads arguing the most asinine of points... and was wondering where I recognized it.
Your keyboard warrior shtick is wearing thin. it might have earned you a B in a Uni Phil class, but in the real world, you're nothing but a sad little troll. |
CC, I am sorry to see you descend to the level of name-calling instead of refuting points made, and Eyeball Kid makes some good ones, such as the one I've highlighted above.
There IS an inordinate amount of misunderstanding and misinformation about sex offenders that it bandied about by opportunistic politicians and their sensationalistic media shills. As an example, politicians quote 95% recidivism rates for sex offenders and media repeat it unchallenged when the actual rate is 5.3%. But don't take my word for it. Would you believe the US Department of Justice? Here's the report. Read it for yourself.
In a country which spends billions of dollars annually on education, it is inexcusable that politicians and reporters are allowed to remain so ignorant, thus depriving the constituency of more realistic and effective means of dealing with such a difficult problem. They do not merit their positions.
I also do not understand the logic that, if one argues against barbarism, one is therefore childless?  Barbarity is not a value I'd like to teach my children. Furthermore as a parent, if an ex-offender were living in my neighborhood, I'd be heartened by the fact that his chances of committing another such crime were so low. |
Sorry, but how am I misunderstanding the EyeBall kid's points? I care not about recidivism nor causes, in for far as I only care about how to stop it.
He, nor anyone in this thread, have in any way shown how to stop pedophilia and associated crimes. Instead, I've seen only calls for more 'understanding' of the perpetrators.
While I understand that all have rights, I worry that those standing up for the latter have rarely mentioned the former. I am shocked that any post about this topic does not start out as 'For all those who have been victimized by such crimes, my sympathies go out to you". Instead, we've got people on here playing devil's advocate... and it only holds so much water in my boat.
I mentioned the thing about him being a parent because it DOES factor into feelings and understandings about pedophilic crimes. Prior to being a parent I would hear news about such things and feel disgust. Now that I have a child the crimes take on a whole new reality. I'm not trying to sound reactionary or alarmist, but the simple fact is - most adults do not have to worry about pedophilia and are not affected by it unless A) It happened to them as a child, or B) they have children.
Debate the philosophy or crime and punishment all you want, but if you dare forget or neglect the victims, your argument will forever be flawed. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Sorry, but how am I misunderstanding the EyeBall kid's points? I care not about recidivism nor causes, in for far as I only care about how to stop it.
He, nor anyone in this thread, have in any way shown how to stop pedophilia and associated crimes. Instead, I've seen only calls for more 'understanding' of the perpetrators.
While I understand that all have rights, I worry that those standing up for the latter have rarely mentioned the former. I am shocked that any post about this topic does not start out as 'For all those who have been victimized by such crimes, my sympathies go out to you". Instead, we've got people on here playing devil's advocate... and it only holds so much water in my boat.
I mentioned the thing about him being a parent because it DOES factor into feelings and understandings about pedophilic crimes. Prior to being a parent I would hear news about such things and feel disgust. Now that I have a child the crimes take on a whole new reality. I'm not trying to sound reactionary or alarmist, but the simple fact is - most adults do not have to worry about pedophilia and are not affected by it unless A) It happened to them as a child, or B) they have children.
Debate the philosophy or crime and punishment all you want, but if you dare forget or neglect the victims, your argument will forever be flawed. |
Apparently, you did not read my post carefully enough so I'll repost the relevant sections here:
"Lawmakers and the media are not only defrauding the American public, they are also effectively doing society and children a huge disservice - creating an unnecessary and overblown climate of fear and anxiety, while continuing to put America's children at risk."
"During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S.
died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes.
This does not include victims who become permanently disfigured and/or disabled as a result of DUI related accidents. Many of them are children."
"Additionally over 1,400 children die each year at the hands of their own
parents due to abuse and neglect."
"Sex crimes are a terrible social ill and there are ways to prevent them.
The knowledge and information that is needed to make effective laws IS
available and we need to demand that our lawmakers acknowledge this
information and start using it effectively."
The foregoing show a clear concern for victims. In fact, that is exactly the point, that we are not protecting our children in the most realistic way possible.
It is also illogical to say you want to stop the crime but do not care about recidivism, since repeat crimes are being stopped insofar as recidivism is reduced. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Sorry, but how am I misunderstanding the EyeBall kid's points? I care not about recidivism nor causes, in for far as I only care about how to stop it.
He, nor anyone in this thread, have in any way shown how to stop pedophilia and associated crimes. Instead, I've seen only calls for more 'understanding' of the perpetrators.
While I understand that all have rights, I worry that those standing up for the latter have rarely mentioned the former. I am shocked that any post about this topic does not start out as 'For all those who have been victimized by such crimes, my sympathies go out to you". Instead, we've got people on here playing devil's advocate... and it only holds so much water in my boat.
I mentioned the thing about him being a parent because it DOES factor into feelings and understandings about pedophilic crimes. Prior to being a parent I would hear news about such things and feel disgust. Now that I have a child the crimes take on a whole new reality. I'm not trying to sound reactionary or alarmist, but the simple fact is - most adults do not have to worry about pedophilia and are not affected by it unless A) It happened to them as a child, or B) they have children.
Debate the philosophy or crime and punishment all you want, but if you dare forget or neglect the victims, your argument will forever be flawed. |
Apparently, you did not read my post carefully enough so I'll repost the relevant sections here:
"Lawmakers and the media are not only defrauding the American public, they are also effectively doing society and children a huge disservice - creating an unnecessary and overblown climate of fear and anxiety, while continuing to put America's children at risk." |
A vague statement. Are they saying that overblown numbers are putting children at risk? So if they tell me that 20% of toys produced in China are unsafe, but the real number is 5%, somehow I should be faulting them instead of the toymaker?
| Quote: |
"During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S.
died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes. |
What's your point? That alcohol is dangerous? I already know that. In fact, I'd be quite happy to have it banned. I'm really not sure why you felt the need to bring this up again though. Did you want to discuss the dangers of alcohol? Perhaps you can make another thread for that? (and I'd join in with you condemning it)
| Quote: |
"Additionally over 1,400 children die each year at the hands of their own
parents due to abuse and neglect." |
I'm very sorry to hear about those numbers. Personally, I rank any perpetrator of a crime against children in pretty much the same boat.
| Quote: |
"Sex crimes are a terrible social ill and there are ways to prevent them.
The knowledge and information that is needed to make effective laws IS
available and we need to demand that our lawmakers acknowledge this
information and start using it effectively." |
eally, I have yet to read it. Not saying that it is not possible, but I have yet to read about a measure to stop 100% of child sex crimes. If you have a link, please post it. I would love to read anything that is proven to eliminate sex crimes from our society.
| Quote: |
| The foregoing show a clear concern for victims. In fact, that is exactly the point, that we are not protecting our children in the most realistic way possible. |
Ah, I get where you were going with all of this. But the point could be made that the above quotes instead talk about victims of OTHER crimes (though no less victims I'm sure). Where did yourself and TheEyeBallKid express your concern about the victims of pedophilia? Because after all, is that not the nature of this thread?
| Quote: |
| It is also illogical to say you want to stop the crime but do not care about recidivism, since repeat crimes are being stopped insofar as recidivism is reduced. |
I think you misunderstand (or I mis-wrote). what I mean is, I really could care less about the criminals themselves. I've seen and heard FIRST HAND people trying to explain why they committed such acts. I know of people personally who blames a number of things on their actions.
I honestly care only so much. The MAJORITY of my sympathies go towards the child victims in these cases.
I hope that makes my point clearer. |
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