Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Haggard]

I've seen several different threads about living in Korea long-term and a recent poll asking if people were happy here, so I wanted to consolidate the two and ask a serious question for the lifers and those considering becoming lifers.

How is it possible to be happy in the long-term in Korea when you live in a box? In the short-term, I can see it. The money and the new shine of the country and the culture can preoccupy your mind enough for a year or two to make you forget about the comparitively poor living conditions and lack of personal living space. But for those of you who plan to live here permanently, how do you look forward to a life in a 2 or 3-bedroom box?

Is it just that you've never lived in a house with a garage and a yard before, so you have no idea what you're missing? Or are you willing to accept little to no space in exchange for the better money and vacation time? If you've got kids here or are planning on having kids, how do you justify raising them in a box?

The possibility of having a 4 or 5-bedroom house with a 2-car garage and a big yard in a nice neighborhood is literally impossible for anyone in Korea, even those with large cash. My boss pulls in high six-figures and like the rest of the rich in Korea, he lives in a box in Apkujeong. It may be a nicer box with a nicer view and some nicer gadgets, but at the end of the day, it's still a box.

My brother in Washington works entry level at an insurance company, makes 5% of what my boss makes, and has a house 3 times as big as my boss' apartment, with a front and back yard. He's 24 years old. My boss is 63 and worked his entire life to get that box. My brother's fresh out of university and the only work he had to do was sign the mortgage papers.

Given, no one on a teacher's salary can even dream of that luxury box in Apkujeong. The absolute best digs most of you are ever going to live in will be pretty similar to what you're in now, which blows by any measurable standard. Sure, you may get an extra bedroom, a few hundred more square feet, and a veranda if you're lucky after 5-10 years, but the reality is that the best you can hope for is a nice, small apartment, and that's it. You will never have a real house with real privacy and real grass to roll around with your real kids if you choose to live in Korea long-term.

I'm not asking this question to bring anyone down or gloat about my brother. I'm simply wondering, how do you possibly live with the reality of box-life as a permanent condition? For me, Korea is a means to an end. I'm able to tolerate the horrid living conditions of box-life only because I can look forward to using the money I save during this period to buy a real house back in the states. Box-life is unbearable, but in less than 6 months I'll be out of the apart-uh prison and in to a real, comfortable existence. There's light at the end of tunnel.

For the lifers here, there is no light. How is it possible to wake up every day knowing that you'll never get out of the box prison? How do you deal with the fact that there's a definitive ceiling on your housing situation and the highest you can hope to go isn't much higher than what you're stuck in now?

I know what the living conditions here are like, and it's not 3rd-world by any means. I'm not comparing a box in Korea to a mud hut in Vietnam or a favela in Rio. I've lived in the hakwon dumps and the nicer university set-ups. I've seen my in-laws' middle class digs and my boss' luxury living. All in all, the difference between the hakwon dump and the Kangnam castle isn't really that significant. Compared to the normal living conditions in Korea, I think most teachers have a decent set-up on average. But my point is that the average living conditions in Korea are poor by a Western standard, and that's really the standard you have to use. When measured against what you could expect to live in back in the US or Canada at a similiar salary, Korea is comparitive dump.

I'm really curious to hear how you lifers deal with this reality, because in my mind it's an absolute deal-breaker. I could never even consider living in Korea long-term simply because I'd sooner die than be resigned to a living space of 800 square feet with 2000 other people all crammed in the same building. Not only that, but knowing that your chances of moving up and improving your living conditions are slim to none, and slim just left town.

How do you do it?

[Holyjoe]

One could argue it's not where you live, but how you live and who you live with.

Wouldn't really matter in that sense what the outside of your house looked like then.

[weatherman]

You see thoughs houses as boxes, I don't. Remember going home for a visit about two years ago during winter, and I couldn't even start to believe how drafty and cold the 'old' house was back in the states. I really thought 'warmly' of Korean apartments with there big windows and good views. Each to their own.

[Mr. Pink]

Interesting, so having a home in USA is so great? (Or any western country)

I don't know about you, but I don't know many 20-30yrs that have their own house back home.

So instead of living the 9-5 boring a-s life back home so I can make house payments on time, car payments on time, worry about mowing the lawn, cleaning an entire house etc. Maybe some of us prefer to live simply now, so when we retire or leave Korea we can pay cash for a house and pay some kid to come take care of our yard.

Korea isn't for everyone. I like the fact that I can walk out of my house and there is a convience store 2 secs away - meaning I don't have to drive 10-15mins to find one after hours like I would back home.

I wish I had your bosses apkujong apt. FYI those apts usually cost 300mil to 1bil won depending on size and who made it. Don't knock the size, for Korea that is a very very prestigious place to live - say like Beverly Hills in USA, and so prices are very high.

I don't know how teachers can stand living in officetels or one rooms, or shared accomadations for more than 1-2yrs upon getting in Korea...but pretty sure the guys who have been here as long as me or longer, started saving and have a place that gives a bit of room to breath.

[Corporal]

I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a queen of infinite space. It's all in your mind.

[just because]

I think that the American style home is a waste of space. Sure it is good to have a home that big but whatabout all the materails that are used in constructing that home, the waste of natural resources used to heat, cool, gas, etc. such a large space.
I like the way the Koreans have it set up here. 35 pyeong is sufficient enough room i think. While apartments are a little unightly and can be compared to doggy boxes, the environmental savings constructing smaller living quarters are definantly a big plus. It is only in the last century that we have considered the need(or luxury) to live in such large residences.

[Dr. Buck]

Haggard, best post of the month by far.
You hit all of the points that have been mulling in my brain for a long time.
It's the filthy reality of living like a trapped rat.
I just read about Bundang in Newsweek's Asia edition. What a joke!
In Korea, new aprtment complexs are called "New Town" or "Villa" and other such Konglish gibberish, but in real English, they are called ghettos!
Or tenement slums!
And that is what you get for reaching the top in Korea, after years of studying for the high school exam, graduating SNU, and landing a coveted job at a chaebol:
your reward is a cement box with bad parking.

I'm half laughing my ass off, but the other half quickly stops laughing when I realize that at the moment, I live in a cramped cement box, too.

And how do I crave:
a garage to rip-snort power tools in,
a backyard to hold private bbq parties--grow a garden, plant a tree, and to merely goof-off in,
a driveway where the sun always shines on a parking spot for me, me, me.
a back forty--acres that is, for hunting, with a trout stream running through it, and a corral for the horses, and a kennel for the pointers,
a tire swing for the future Buck-spawn,
a place to park the duck boat and canoe and kayak,
and upstairs, a downstairs, a basement . . .

Ideed, life in the Korean cement box is a low quality one for sure, and anyone that does so for the long term is a loser with low-standards---whoa, big statement---or, must be rolling in such an amount of cash, perks, and prestige to make such a chicken-coop existence worthwhile.

Cement box living=low quality of life.

But then, different strokes for different folks.

NEWS FLASH:
AP South Korea:
"ESL Teachers in South Korea Do Lucractive Illegal Private Tutoring to Amass Large Down Payment on Dream House in Home Country."

[Haggard]

[Holyjoe]

[just because]

[Mashimaro]

The 'quality of life' in Korea is crap compared to most parts of the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc. etc. No surprsises there... There is plenty of time to sit around on the porch of your big house when your 60 years old.. Right now I'm perfectly happy to live in a big, crowded, smelly city like Seoul or Bangkok or Tokyo because lets face it, there is more to life than having 5 bedrooms, or having friends over to grill some cows.

[Haggard]

[Holyjoe]

Haggard, you've completely invented opinions for me here. Thanks very much and all that, but I don't need them - I can come up with my own (which I haven't stated on this thread so less of the "you're the rule and I'm the exception" stuff)

Just playing devil's advocate and all...

[Corporal]

Haggard, are you bored? What's with the lengthy diatribes? Can't you accept that some people might not care as much as you do? Why do we all HAVE to agree with you? (Cause if we don't we're all losers... )

[Haggard]