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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| giggles84 wrote: |
well, surely it was an accurate potrayal of the system at the time, rather than being racist?
Remember there is something called temperal space i.e. time and through time things evolve and change! dumbo was made in 1941 so it highlighting something which was part of american society and culture at the time! if you stunned it maybe shows your misunderstanding of USA history and/ or too senstive. or you u r closet racist feeling pity on them. u choose which one! i rather say u just plainly didn t know when dumbo was made!(?) |
This isn't about me, what I believe, or what I know (though obviously I am aware that Dumbo isn't a contemporary film-- reread the original post and this is abundantly clear.)
I'm just pointing out that it seems very out of step with what is currently acceptable and wondering how other "classics" have stood the test of time.
Re: "mud golems"
The term is a bit redundant as a genuine golem is made of mud, but I didn't want anyone to think I was referring to "Gollum." This is what I had in mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem |
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Jeju Rocks
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
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How many hit points would one of these Mud Golems have?
Remember that I have a Ring of DM Control.  |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs (working title: So White and de Sebben Dwarfs) is a Merrie Melodies animated cartoon directed by Bob Clampett, produced by Leon Schlesinger Productions, and released to theatres on January 16, 1943 by Warner Bros. Pictures and The Vitaphone Corporation.
The film is notable for being an all-black parody of the Brothers Grimm fairy tale Snow-White, known to its audience from the popular 1937 Walt Disney animated feature Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. The stylistic portrayal of the characters, however, is an example of classic racist darky iconography (see blackface), which was widely accepted in white American society at the time. As such, it is one of the most controversial cartoons in the classic Warner Bros. library, has been rarely seen on television, and has never been officially released on home video. However, it is often named as one of the best cartoons ever made,[1] in part for its African-American-inspired jazz and swing music, and is considered one of Clampett's masterpieces.
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Jeju Rocks wrote: |
| mud golems? |
I'll see your mud golem and raise you a tar baby.
Zippity doo dah |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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It is a very sweet film. I didn't actually see elephants aside from Dumbo and his mom working, as I was too busy reading the subtitles.
If you take a more post-modern "reading" of "text", you can acknowledge the innocent intent of the animators while leaving room for other reactions. I agree that Dumbo is a very stylized film (the clown scenes shown in silhouette, for instance) but as you say, those "roustabout" characters are pretty ambiguous.
I don't mind ambiguity. Being politically correct means being absolutely literal, vigilant and monotonous, leaving no room for suggestion or question. I don't think these characters are "politically correct." I don't think they're overtly racist either.
I don't think the crows are racist either, to be frank. They do seem pretty "black" as well, but there's nothing really negative about them (as far as I can see.) Perhaps someone more sensitive to American race relations can pick up some nuances I have missed.
| VanIslander wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| Watch the clip. The "roustabouts" are all very very dark. The white people in the film all have facial features. I found the images remarkable before the I noticed the words. |
 By that logic there are several black elephants in the film as well. (Elephants as roustabouts, Dumbo joining in to do the work alongside them.) |
I don't follow what you're saying about the elephants |
The elephants are doing half the work of the roustabouts! qua roustabouts themselves; look again at the clip at the images of shadowy dark rows of elephants lifting the tent in unison and setting in the poles.
Any equation of roustabouts with elephants with race is alluded to rather than shown, seen as implied by those interpreting it, and it really depends on one's vantage point.
And the moral of the story of Dumbo is ENDURE PREJUDICE. Don't let people get to you with their criticisms and ridicule. gawd i loved the film as a kid.
The only racism in the film might have to do with the crows, a well-known criticism. The roundabout song though? That is a reach. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Jeju Rocks wrote: |
| mud golems? |
I'll see your mud golem and raise you a tar baby.
Zippity doo dah |
Beat you to it on page 1. It's from a movie called "Song of the South." |
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genezorm
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: Mokpo
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mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Being politically correct means being absolutely literal, vigilant and monotonous, leaving no room for suggestion or question. |
Amen. political correctness is boring suckitude. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Snow White & the Seven Dwarves just drips with sexual tension-very inappropriate for children. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Racism...or simple time saving?
If these characters are not central to the story, I can see why they were drawn as "mud golems". Why waste time and care on a fringe character? |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Jeju Rocks wrote: |
| mud golems? |
I'll see your mud golem and raise you a tar baby.
Zippity doo dah |
Beat you to it on page 1. |
| kermo wrote: |
| My lad just reminded me about the "Song of the South," a film which Disney tried to "permanently retire" in 1970 (but reconsidered later, to the consternation of the NAACP.) |
That does it. He's a dead man. 
They retired the movie, but that Zippity Doo Dah song has lived on and on and on because they play it at Disneyland, they play it on those "Music of Disney"-type TV specials, etc. So generations of kids were growing up knowing that song, but unlike every other Disney tune, they had no clue about the movie it was from, and it was like they're *not supposed to know* who Uncle Remus, Br'er Rabbit and the Tar-Baby were. |
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