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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: Far Right American Email: Canada's Health Care System |
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Hi, Canadians.
Occasionally, I call upon you at times to inform we Americans about your country. This is one of those occasions. I'd like to know whether this email I received is fact/fiction, and to what extent.
Thanks for your assistance.
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Subject: FW: Canada's Health Care System - Very Interesting!
Careful in casting your vote this election. Interesting comments about the "free health-care" system in Canada.
a note "supposedly from" someone in Canada . . .
I saw on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.
First of all:
1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.
2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.
3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement
4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.
6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.
7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.
 Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.
9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.
11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.
13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.
14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered but the health care system.
I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.
Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Far Right American Email: Canada's Health Care System |
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My thoughts as a Canadian:
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| 1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense. |
So this guy is making some decent coin. To hit that 55% bracket, you have to be pretty far up there (and pretty dumb not to have any write-offs). I'm guessing it's the dumb part that makes him think that most of his taxes go to health care. Chances are, the vast majority of his INCOME taxes are going to service National Debt.
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| 2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road. |
Sure, this is possible. But in my experience, with ALL of the times I've needed medical help, I've gotten it quickly. Any time I've elected for medical treatment, I've had to wait a bit.
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| 3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement |
Not sure on this. I've had good doctors and bad, and always attributed it to their individual styles. I would not say that this phenomena is indicative of the entire system.
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| 4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor. |
True. Many Canadians just go to local clinics that act similar to family doctors. Society is changing and people rarely go to the same doctor for their entire life anymore. This is no longer the 50's and my name isn't Beaver.
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| 5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment. |
If you don't require emergency treatment, WTF are you doing in an emergency room??
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| 6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week. |
This sounds like BS to me. I've never had to pay for splints and such and have never had to pay for additional check-ups.
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| 7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment. |
Shirley seems to be having a tough time. How long was the waiting list? What was the waiting list for? There are too many details missing from this one.
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| Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears. |
I suppose this is possible. I've never heard of anyone actually having this problem though. How many is it? 5? 10? Does this apply to children as well? Honestly, I can't imagine this actually happening. "Sorry, I know your kid needs yet another surgery, but we've already done 5 this year so you'll have to wait."
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| 9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee. |
This does not sound like it was written by a Canadian. Something about this is just smelling hokey.
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| 10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs. |
I suspect there are some major details left out here. This woman is 65 and a smoker... any chance she may be a high risk candidate? Perhaps they think there'll be more troubles if they cut her open than leave her be?
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| 11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get. |
From personal experience - this is BS!
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| 12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy. |
Figger? Is that some new Canadian slang? Again, this letter smells funny.
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| 13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums. |
Did I mention that immigrants are not as big an issue in Canada as in the US? Honestly, how many Canadians do you hear complaining about 'the immigrants'??
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| 14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered but the health care system. |
My step-dad has diabetes. His needles are covered.
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I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.
Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have. |
While the above could be written by a Canadian, it sounds like a whole bunch of smack to me. Honestly, it sounds like it was written for (American) political purposes. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros,
Some managerial aspects:
- Canada doesn't have a "national" health care system or a "national" health insurance system per se. You know that some states in the US have state health insurance systems that cover all residents? (e.g., I think Washington and Minnesota). We have similar systems in each and every province. Hospital, doctor, and many allied health services are covered, but dental and drugs are not.
- Because of how the income and sales tax systems work in Canada, the majority of the funds for the health care system in each province come from cash transfers from the federal government. There is a federal law, the Canada Health Act, that details how those transfers are made and mandates that the provinces must provide equivalent quality of services across the country in order to receive the funds.
- Taxes ARE high in Canada. But nobody pays a "premium" over and above income and sales taxes for health care coverage. I've never heard of that, unless the person is referring to a premium for drug coverage with a private company. But that's voluntary.
- A lot of people also have drug and dental plans through their employers. Again, that's voluntary, people can opt out of those if they wish.
- There is some overprescription of drugs, but that's a problem in all developed countres. There's nothing about having a socialized medical system that makes that more of a problem. Drug costs are the fastest growing portion of health care costs in all developed countries. But in fact, prescription drugs are on average cheaper in Canada than the US because several years ago the federal government cut a deal with the big drug manufacturers to limit prices, in exchange for limiting the sales of generic drugs. Do you remember a couple of years ago all those stories of seniors coming up to Canada to buy prescription drugs, or ordering them from here through the Internet?
The system isn't perfect, and there are delays in services sometimes, such as scheduling surgeries. Doctors and nurses in Canada don't make as much money as they do in the US, and there is a serious chonic problem of "brain drain" - doctors and nurses moving to the US.
The part about the government alloting so many operations per year is absolute nonsense.
Number 4: I'm pretty sure you can get a family doctor if you need one.
Number 6: seems a little hard to believe.
Number 7: Yes, that can happen.
Number 10: also nonsense
Number 11: I don't think that's true, but I'm not 100% certain. The provincial health care systems are not HMOs; if I want a second opinion, I can go to another doctor, he's more than happy to bill the province for his services. 
Number 13: yes legal immigrants get automatic coverage once they become a resident of a province, same as everybody else. But they pay income tax and sales taxes same as everybody else, and they don't pay any premiums, same as everbody else.
Number 14: Its a little bit comparing apples and oranges. There are some needle exchange programs in some provinces because fiscal analyses have shown these programs are often a cheaper way to handle drug addiction rehabilitation in the long run. Also, the long-term cost of treating one AIDS patient is horrendous, so on economic rationales alone, these programs make sense AND HELP REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTH CARE AND THEREFORE REDUCE TAXES. 
Although the system isn't perfect, most Canadians are appalled at the idea of living under a privatized medical system. It's just our mentality, we're partly European or Scandanavian in our outlook on life. Canadians per capita buy more life insurance than anybody else in the world. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You know Kuros when I read about this stuff in the US it seems a little bizarre, because I know for a fact that there are a few states that have state health insurance and health care systems like we have in Canada and they seem to work fine. Even though they probably receive less funding from the US federal government than the provinces receive from the Canadian federal government. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Also a Canuck, here. I agree with the Captain that this guy is making serious coin to be in that tax bracket. Points:
1) If he's paying a premium then he must be in Alberta. The trade-off there is that there's no PST. Some like that, some don't.
2) Aside from cancer patients, there are definitely some long wait times. A hot issue in Canadian politics.
3) Probably true. And doctors sure like to rack up patient visits!
4) Probably true.
5) There HAVE been cases of some really banged-up people waiting a fair bit of time for treatment. Part of that is due to abuse of the system-people showing up at ER w/no real emergency.
6) That's news to me.
7) Could be true. If she needed surgery to rectify it then it could be the doc f564ed up big time.
Honestly don't know.
9) Many politicians admit the system is flawed-even defenders of universal socialized medicine.
10) This is the elephant in the room few politicos want to talk about: should the system discriminate against those who abuse their bodies?
11) I don't think that's true.
12) Again, a hot issue in Canada. A recent Supreme Court decision seems to point the way for those who would prefer to use private c | | |
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