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| How important is your national anthem? |
| I don't give a toss about it. |
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38% |
[ 15 ] |
| I feel a certain pride when I hear (even though I don't know all the lyrics). |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
| I don't think much about it, but if I ever heard any knavish foreigners mocking it I'd do my nut! |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
| It has a very important place in my heart, and it brings me to tears whenever it's played. |
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28% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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Message |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Americans tend to overemphasize the importance of American independence to Britishness and British patriotism |
Actually that isn't true. Americans are only very vaguely aware of ever having been colonies of anybody. Ask the average American about the Revolution and 9 out of 10 would say something about a tea party and Washington standing up in a boat while crossing the Delaware--if you're lucky. Our national consciousness starts with the Civil War.
I'll bet 99 out of 100 Americans go whole entire hours without thinking of Britain. Some even manage to go a whole day. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I generally hold in contempt folks who badmouth their own country too much. I understand what they're getting at, but I think they overdo it. I don't want to hear how much you hate Charles and Diana, Tony Blair and and 'God Save The King'. Give me Waterloo, bulldogs, and the Battle of Britain.
In left-wing circles it is always always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true, that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during 'God save the King' than of stealing from a poor box.
-George Orwell
Last edited by Leslie Cheswyck on Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I'll bet 99 out of 100 Americans go whole entire hours without thinking |
Camon. I'm sure 10-12 do. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| Not being ruled by the British was (I don't believe it is anymore) central to the American identity, but not being ruled by Napoleon or any continental Catholic despot is (or was) central to the British identity and, like I say, Americans tend to overemphasize the importance of American independence to Britishness and British patriotism. It's hardly discussed and not simply because the outcome was the opposite of what the British fought for. It's not discussed because it's simply not that central. Winning wars against Johnny Foreigners make up Britishness - not losing wars to British or former British subjects. That's why it's always surprising to see it claimed to be the source of a national inferiority complex. |
This is very true. Several Americans I've met in real life, and scores more of the internet-warrior variety, have brought this up like it's some kind of really big deal and we Brits must still be reeling from it. Because it's such a huge part of their national identity, it doesn't seem to occur to many of them that many Brits are hardly even aware of this bit of history. We've got loads of history to cover in the classroom, from before the Roman invasion even, and this is really just a footnote in our history. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I think B_B's defense of that behavior indicates that her cultural heritage is important to her. Why else would she defend it so? It shouldn't be that difficult to accept that others have a different view. |
What am I supposed to be defending? Please elaborate. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
I generally hold in contempt folks who badmouth their own country too much. I understand what they're getting at, but I think they overdo it. I don't want to hear how much you hate Charles and Diana, Tony Blair and and 'God Save The King'. Give me Waterloo, bulldogs, and the Battle of Britain.
In left-wing circles it is always always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true, that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during 'God save the King' than of stealing from a poor box.
-George Orwell |
Perhaps you need to brush up your reading comprehension? Nowhere have I complained about my Englishness. I'm very happy with it thank you very much. What I'm discussing is people getting so worked up about their flag or their anthem they've got to bang on about it all the bloody time. I'm quite pleased to say that most English aren't into all this nonsense and I do not have to suffer it much in my own country. So this is one instance where I'm very satisfied with my country and fellow citizens. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Some students and teachers were sitting in the lounge one day, talking about national anthems.
I discovered that I knew all the words to the Korean national anthem, but I didn't know all the words to my own. |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| But the American national anthem is poetic. |
'America, once a great country,
elected for president a monkey.
They gave him an army,
then let him go barmy,
along with Great Britain its flunkey.'
There you go, I just made that up and it rhymes too. Very poetic given 10 minutes of my life that I have just wasted. Just as good isn't it? Or isn't it long enough?
Or how about this one:
'Tōna mana kia tū!
Tōna kaha kia ū;
Tōna rongo hei pakū
Ki te ao katoa
Aua rawa ngā whawhai
Ngā tutū a tata mai;
Kia tupu nui ai
Aotearoa'
Sends shivers down my spine... |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I haven't got a patriotic bone in my body. Who said "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious", Oscar Wilde? No, hang on it was Sean Connery in the Rock. Never owned a union flag never learnt or sung 'God Save the Queen' except maybe the Sex Pistols version. I have many concerns about Blighty but flags and anthems were never among them. Last night of the proms? Damn does that mean they've cancelled Deep Space 9 again?
I love the history and identify Britain has and it is my country, but don't ask me to stand up and sing for it. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
This is very true. Several Americans I've met in real life, and scores more of the internet-warrior variety, have brought this up like it's some kind of really big deal and we Brits must still be reeling from it. Because it's such a huge part of their national identity, it doesn't seem to occur to many of them that many Brits are hardly even aware of this bit of history. We've got loads of history to cover in the classroom, from before the Roman invasion even, and this is really just a footnote in our history. |
American history classes for the last 40 years or so include a great amount of pre-Columbian history. In my experience, the only areas of the country who seem to be in touch with the Revolution's historic importance are the original colonies, where I'm guessing less than 25% of the country lives. In the newer parts of the country, the local history is often also the beginning of American history in the minds of the people.
I'm guessing that the internet warriors you have dealt with are simply trying to annoy you, most Americans today would simply marvel that there ever could have been a time where England would have been so silly to pick a fight with us. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Difference is, some countries have self belief, direction and unity... and others don't.
Its not even really nationalism. Its a sort of collective feeling.
The British were very proud of their anthem back around 60 years ago or more. Now they don't care, because the nature of their society has changed.
But Big Bird don't expect all other nationalities to follow your path. Some people do care about their countries. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Difference is, some countries have self belief, direction and unity... and others don't.
Its not even really nationalism. Its a sort of collective feeling.
The British were very proud of their anthem back around 60 years ago or more. Now they don't care, because the nature of their society has changed.
But Big Bird don't expect all other nationalities to follow your path. Some people do care about their countries. |
Caring about your country and going nutty about a song are two different things. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Sex Pistols
Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex... (1977)
God Save The Queen
God save the Queen
the fascist regime,
they made you a moron
a potential H-bomb.
God save the Queen
she ain't no human being.
There is no future
in England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need.
There's no future
there's no future
there's no future for you
God save the Queen
we mean it man
we love our queen
God saves
God save the Queen
'cos tourists are money
and our figurehead
is not what she seems
Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
all crimes are paid.
When there's no future
how can there be sin
we're the flowers
in the dustbin
we're the poison
in your human machine
we're the future
you're future
God save the Queen
we mean it man
we love our queen
God saves
God save the Queen
we mean it man
there is no future
in England's dreaming
No future
no future for you
no fufure for me |
| Quote: |
| The Pistols' second single, "God Save the Queen", was released 27 May 1977. Though widely perceived as a personal attack on Queen Elizabeth II, Rotten later stated that the song was not specifically aimed at the Queen, but was instead intended to critique the deference given to Royalty in general. However, the perceived disrespect to the monarchy caused widespread public outcry. The record was banned from airplay by the BBC, whose Radio 1 dominated music broadcasting at the time. Rotten later remarked, "We had declared war on the entire country�without meaning to!" |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Pistols
So, the Brits don't care about their national anthem?  |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| Quote: |
Sex Pistols
Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex... (1977)
God Save The Queen
God save the Queen
the fascist regime,
they made you a moron
a potential H-bomb.
God save the Queen
she ain't no human being.
There is no future
in England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need.
There's no future
there's no future
there's no future for you
God save the Queen
we mean it man
we love our queen
God saves
God save the Queen
'cos tourists are money
and our figurehead
is not what she seems
Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
all crimes are paid.
When there's no future
how can there be sin
we're the flowers
in the dustbin
we're the poison
in your human machine
we're the future
you're future
God save the Queen
we mean it man
we love our queen
God saves
God save the Queen
we mean it man
there is no future
in England's dreaming
No future
no future for you
no fufure for me |
| Quote: |
| The Pistols' second single, "God Save the Queen", was released 27 May 1977. Though widely perceived as a personal attack on Queen Elizabeth II, Rotten later stated that the song was not specifically aimed at the Queen, but was instead intended to critique the deference given to Royalty in general. However, the perceived disrespect to the monarchy caused widespread public outcry. The record was banned from airplay by the BBC, whose Radio 1 dominated music broadcasting at the time. Rotten later remarked, "We had declared war on the entire country�without meaning to!" |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Pistols
So, the Brits don't care about their national anthem? |
That just demonstrates the power of the media, and the power of those in power to control public thinking. |
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