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The Euro-American religious divide
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sundubuman

Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject:

The_Eyeball_Kid wrote:

I refer you to my previous response, you right-wing crackpot. Good *beep* lord, I sincerely hope you're not a teacher, and most certainly not a teacher of children.

The sentiment is likewise. It seems like you are the one more likely to try and indoctrinate kids...and to use foul language in their presence.

But then again, your behavior in this thread is infantile, so my guess is you are drowning in a hagwon.

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

I think there is a religious divide between the US and the EU but it is smaller than people think. The religious right are just louder in the states. I think in the next 20 years or so there will be a backlash against there fundamentalism and the US will become more secular.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:

Kuros wrote:

Wow. You learn something new everyday. My respect for H.W. just dropped a few notches.

Which is weird because he's Episcopalian, which is a pretty liberal church.

Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:39 am Post subject:

sundubuman wrote:

You are an absolute f u c k w i t.

Europe's current harmony is not a result of its adoption of secular humanism, it is a result of the United States imposing more or less by force a pax Americana.

It's a bit of both.

sundubuman wrote:

As it looks down its snooty nose at religious Americans (meanwhile worshipping Hindu new-age healers and the Dalai Lama)..its naive faith in its own secular nirvana is currently being drowned by a miniscule birth rate and increasing immigration of largely non-assimilating minorities. If it had maintained some modicum of faith and tradition, which has led to at least a basic replacement level of fertility in the States, maybe it wouldn't be facing the existential crisis it is soon to be encountering.

The United States fertility rate being of replacement level is superficial. Blacks and Hispanics breed like rabbits, whilst the birth rate is 1.8 for non-Hispanic white women (below the replacement rate of 2.1) - the same as Britain and France. The EU average is 1.5. Canada is 1.51. So - assuming these trends continue, which they may or may not - steady population decline will occur in Europe and amongst whites in North America, and rapid population decline will occur amongst Japanese, Koreans and the people of Hong Kong at more dangerous levels.

Developed countries usually have a much lower fertility rate due to greater wealth and individualistic culture. Birth rates in New York City and San Francisco will - I'll bet W1 million - will be lower than in some louthsome pit in the south or midwest. Mortality rates are low and birth control is easily accessible also. Secularism being to blame is a laughably crude analysis.

source

sundubuman wrote:

But its much more fun to poo poo simple religious Americans while the cafe burns.

It's always fun to poo-poo simple religious people no matter what their nationality or skin color.

Thomas Carlyle agreed: "If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it." Laughing

Dying for the sins of humanity means Jesus was a fool - not divine.

sundubuman

Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:47 am Post subject:

For what it's worth, there is a noticeable gap in the white birth rates between red and blue states. I think it is in America's long-term well-being to maintain a large family-oriented segment of the population. The numbers you mention for France and Britain mask the large disparities within those societies' native white and immigrant populations. I'm assuming the same may be true for Canada.

Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:27 am Post subject:

sundubuman wrote:

What a load of crap this article is. Separation of church and state means that the state won't institute a state religion the way European powers HAD ALWAYS done. It didn't mean abolishing the role of religion or the religious in government.

** thinking ** I'm not so sure that's true from a British or a European perspective. Many European states have had state religions for much of their history, and still do...but in earlier ages, it was much more common for Bishops and other church officials to hold high appointed office in government. Cardinal Richelieu in pre-revolutionary France comes to mind. I think its fair to say nowadays that citizens in most liberal democracies are uncomfortable with religious officials holding high office - or any office - in government, or attempting to link their work in government with the interests of their religious group or sect.

I suppose the phrase "separation of church and state" can be interpreted in more than one way...

cazador83

Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:34 am Post subject:

thepeel wrote:

We don't want the leader of the free world consulting "god" when stuff goes down. We'd rather he consult experts and get to work. Praying is a waste of time.

who exactly is "we?"

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:

Quote:

some louthsome pit in the south or midwest

What is so loathesome about the South and Midwest?

Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

some louthsome pit in the south or midwest

What is so loathesome about the South and Midwest?

Is that what I wrote? In the statement of mine that you have quoted, does it say "the south and midwest are loathsome"?

sundubuman wrote:

The numbers you mention for France and Britain mask the large disparities within those societies' native white and immigrant populations. I'm assuming the same may be true for Canada.

Yeah probably, but evidence needs to be presented in order to make the claim.

Just as I expected re red and blue states. Blue areas of America are New England, New York State, California, Pacific Northwest....and red states chiefly southern and midwestern.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Birth rates in New York City and San Francisco will - I'll bet W1 million - will be lower than in some louthsome pit in the south or midwest.

Am I misinterpreting what 'louthsome' means?

No_hite_pls

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject:

sundubuman wrote:

Europe is in a long death spiral, and many see its lack of religion as part of that.

Live rates at 2007.12.14 01:47:33 UTC
1.00 EUR = 1.46170 USD
Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.46170 USD 1 USD = 0.684134 EUR

Last edited by No_hite_pls on Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject:

deleted Last edited by cbclark4 on Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject:

No_hite_pls wrote:

sundubuman wrote:

Europe is in a long death spiral, and many see its lack of religion as part of that.

Death Spiral, I don't think so.

Live rates at 2007.12.14 01:47:33 UTC
1.00 EUR = 1.46170 USD
Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.46170 USD 1 USD = 0.684134 EUR

Interesting. But I missed the part where you showed how exchange rates were relevant to birthrates.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Birth rates in New York City and San Francisco will - I'll bet W1 million - will be lower than in some louthsome pit in the south or midwest.

Am I misinterpreting what 'louthsome' means?

No, but you seem to be struggling with basic comprehension. Wink

He didn't say that those pits were 'louthsome' - rather he mentioned 'some louthsome pit' located in those parts.

twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject:

The_Eyeball_Kid wrote:

sundubuman wrote:

Europe is in a long death spiral, and many see its lack of religion as part of that.

You are an absolute f u c k w i t.

You know, I don't see why people even continue to read his posts since they usually invoke this reaction

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