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Embassies Say No To Korean Government Re: New Regs
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laconic2



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Wonderful World of ESL

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Embassies Say No To Korean Government Re: New Regs Reply with quote

Not good news but expected from my experience:

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2883905
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mehmeh



Joined: 23 May 2007
Location: South, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Embassies Say No To Korean Government Re: New Regs Reply with quote

laconic2 wrote:
Not good news but expected from my experience:

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2883905


I like the quote regarding the US: "why can't they make an exception for Korea..." and the backhanded swipe at the US for not having a centralized system. Is it too hard to understand that Americans value their privacy?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the article,

I just don�t understand why they cannot make some exceptions to accommodate the needs of their own nationals,� Choi said. �In Korea, criminal records can be easily obtained online. But they don�t have a centralized system

Is this person so naive that they seriously think the embassies will make exceptions for Korea? In Korea the privacy laws are next to non-existent so Korean officials have these wild expectations that we can magic documents out of thin air. This sort of nonsense manifests itself in other ways too; my co-teacher strongly suspects that I haven't graduated from university because I was unable to access a list of alumni on my university's website. When I explained that we have strong privacy laws she said, "we don't have strange laws like that in Korea." She was shocked when I shot back "yes, and how do you think I know that you are a low risk for breast cancer? I saw the results of your health check up on my desk."
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Korean government shouldn't blame the embassies for problems that their own policies have caused. I think the reporter doesn't understand the role that embassies play.

Why would the embassies accept to incur the cost of Korean policies if they don't receive something in return? Why would foreign governments accept to help the Korean government enforce a law that will cost their citizens?

I think the Roh government, through its dealings with North Korea, has lost sight of the fact that diplomacy operates on the concept of reciprocity.


Last edited by Hollywoodaction on Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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haute 4 teacher



Joined: 19 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The new policy requires applicants for the E-2 visa to provide detailed criminal and health records before receiving a new or renewed visa, documents that were not required previously except for those who applied through the Ministry of Education to work in public schools. The new rule means that teachers in language academies, or hagwon, also must secure the clearances.
The move is a direct response to the case of Christopher Paul Neil, a Canadian English teacher who taught in Korea before being arrested in Thailand in October on charges of sexually assaulting children."



The irony is that he wasn't here on a E-2 visa, it was an E-7 visa for specialty occupation (foreign school).
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reactionary



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to sideline from the main point, but.

Quote:

While D-Day is tomorrow, the agency granted a three-month grace period for current E-2 visa holders to give them more time to prepare the necessary documents, according to the agency�s Web site.
Because the embassies do not provide such services here in Korea, the new guidelines are likely to send E-2 visa holders back home to secure documents unless their countries provide the service online or by mail.


What the hell does that mean? I'm interpreting it as saying even if you are in the middle of an E-2, you still have to go through all this BS?
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haute 4 teacher wrote:
"The new policy requires applicants for the E-2 visa to provide detailed criminal and health records before receiving a new or renewed visa, documents that were not required previously except for those who applied through the Ministry of Education to work in public schools. The new rule means that teachers in language academies, or hagwon, also must secure the clearances.
The move is a direct response to the case of Christopher Paul Neil, a Canadian English teacher who taught in Korea before being arrested in Thailand in October on charges of sexually assaulting children."



The irony is that he wasn't here on a E-2 visa, it was an E-7 visa for specialty occupation (foreign school).


Well, yes it certainly is, but I find little humor in the fact that the new law was the product of electioneering by a government who has made ample use of xenophobia in order to improve it's public approval ratings.
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aaabank



Joined: 27 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the main point of these new rules should not be missed. They are being put in place to keep the children safe. No parents want their children to be in a classroom with a person with a criminal background (read: serious crimes). In the previous system, anybody with a degree could come here, be hired, and jump right into a classroom without references or background checks of any kind. I've heard some people complain that these new restrictions are too much while it is my opinion that these rules should have been put into place much sooner than they were.
While it will take some time to adjust to these new guidelines, and I feel sorry for those teachers who will be forced to make a return trip to their home country for these documents, I truly believe that this new system was inevitable and is actually beneficial to our students.
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NicRenee



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reactionary wrote:
Sorry to sideline from the main point, but.

Quote:

While D-Day is tomorrow, the agency granted a three-month grace period for current E-2 visa holders to give them more time to prepare the necessary documents, according to the agency�s Web site.
Because the embassies do not provide such services here in Korea, the new guidelines are likely to send E-2 visa holders back home to secure documents unless their countries provide the service online or by mail.


What the hell does that mean? I'm interpreting it as saying even if you are in the middle of an E-2, you still have to go through all this BS?


I don't think so, I think it means only E-2 holders who are about to renew. They'll have an extra three months. I think.

Anyone else running in to the problem that to give your police check to someone else IS A FELONY??!?! In California it is, anyway...
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Milwaukiedave



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
From the article,

I just don�t understand why they cannot make some exceptions to accommodate the needs of their own nationals,� Choi said. �In Korea, criminal records can be easily obtained online. But they don�t have a centralized system

Is this person so naive that they seriously think the embassies will make exceptions for Korea? In Korea the privacy laws are next to non-existent so Korean officials have these wild expectations that we can magic documents out of thin air. This sort of nonsense manifests itself in other ways too; my co-teacher strongly suspects that I haven't graduated from university because I was unable to access a list of alumni on my university's website. When I explained that we have strong privacy laws she said, "we don't have strange laws like that in Korea." She was shocked when I shot back "yes, and how do you think I know that you are a low risk for breast cancer? I saw the results of your health check up on my desk."


I agree, the issue of privacy back home is taken seriously. Here people are much more intrusive all around to who you are and what you've done in your life.

To assume that every university has a public list of its graduates online is pretty ridiculous. I don't blame you for saying what you did, although I'm sure it did nothing to get through their thick skull that privacy issues are important to those of us from western countries.
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Milwaukiedave



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
Well, yes it certainly is, but I find little humor in the fact that the new law was the product of electioneering by a government who has made ample use of xenophobia in order to improve it's public approval ratings.


The funny thing is, that while it clearly worked in the 2002 election, this time I doubt it will make one bit of a difference in helping the ruling party.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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jaderedux2



Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: lurking just lurking

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
haute 4 teacher wrote:
"The new policy requires applicants for the E-2 visa to provide detailed criminal and health records before receiving a new or renewed visa, documents that were not required previously except for those who applied through the Ministry of Education to work in public schools. The new rule means that teachers in language academies, or hagwon, also must secure the clearances.
The move is a direct response to the case of Christopher Paul Neil, a Canadian English teacher who taught in Korea before being arrested in Thailand in October on charges of sexually assaulting children."



The irony is that he wasn't here on a E-2 visa, it was an E-7 visa for specialty occupation (foreign school).


Well, yes it certainly is, but I find little humor in the fact that the new law was the product of electioneering by a government who has made ample use of xenophobia in order to improve it's public approval ratings.


And before CPN's cover was blown I am sure he would have passed all the tests with flying colors.

Also, privacy laws are in place because Internet hackers sell identities. The FBI isn't an agency that was set up to check up on uni students wanting to travel. They are set up to catch (and not always well) criminals.

Koreans and their tendency to go squirrel hunting with a howitzers.

I will be interested to watch the fallout.

Jade
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaabank wrote:
I think that the main point of these new rules should not be missed. They are being put in place to keep the children safe. No parents want their children to be in a classroom with a person with a criminal background (read: serious crimes). In the previous system, anybody with a degree could come here, be hired, and jump right into a classroom without references or background checks of any kind. I've heard some people complain that these new restrictions are too much while it is my opinion that these rules should have been put into place much sooner than they were.
While it will take some time to adjust to these new guidelines, and I feel sorry for those teachers who will be forced to make a return trip to their home country for these documents, I truly believe that this new system was inevitable and is actually beneficial to our students.


Public school teachers already undergo background checks (or are supposed to).

The fact remains that despite Korea's good intentions, the process they've gone through to implement these new policy's is retarded. Their policies also won't be catching people on other visas (like Christopher Neil).
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SirFink



Joined: 05 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to the agency, the change will affect 17,200 foreign teachers ― about 11,000 of them from the U.S. and Canada ― and any who apply for visas in the future


That's assuming those 17,200 will be renewing. And after all this, what percentage of them do you really think will be eager to re-sign? How many of them are on drugs, infected with AIDS or have a criminal record? Many, according to KBS TV programs, so Korea better cast a wide net for new teachers. Laughing
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