Korean Job Discussion Forums

ontheway · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject:

To understand a little more:

It you owe $100,000 on a mortgage, that is the net present value of your debt. But, you know, you will have to pay more than that over the life of the loan. Your total will be maybe $250,000 depending, of course, on your interest rate. This is your debt: $100,000 and it has nothing to do with predictions of what your income will be. To be debt free today, assuming that your mortgage is your only obligation, you would need to come up with $100,000.

The $46 trillion or $60 trillion is the current value, that is TODAY, of the Federal government's debt. It is not the total of the payments. The total payments will be 2 or 3 times that. It is not total expenditures. The government will pay for other things too. No. This number is the debt. It is the amount of money the government would need TODAY to become debt free.

Kuros · Joined: 27 Apr 2004

ontheway · Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject:

Please watch the video links I have provided. I have an accounting major and the guy is trying his best to explain. He's quite bright.

luvnpeas · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:01 am Post subject:

luvnpeas · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:28 am Post subject:

ontheway · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:50 am Post subject:

A = L + OE

Dr = Cr

That'll get you started.

"Debt" and "Liabilities" are treated the same on corporate consolidated balance sheets. Yes, there are legal differences in types of liabilities: long term and short term debts, payables, contingent liabilities etc.

On business balance sheets under GAAP, pension and other liabilities must be listed and itemized. These are corporate or business obligations that must be paid. The net unfunded portion of any pension is a liability of the business. It is different from a contracted long term loan or other bank debt. It is different from unpaid wages due, taxes payable, trade accounts payable. Yes, each is different. But all are obligations of the business. All are liabilities. And all are "debts" (by the dictionary definition used by regular folk) that much ultimately be paid and must, legally be included in the liability section on the right side of the balance sheet.

Likewise, the government has tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities. The government also hides payables if they are due in a period beyond the fiscal year. Many contracted debts are not included in the "official" $9 trillion debt. The official debt numbers are meaningless and fraudulent. They do not include all of the trade payables. They do not include contingent liabilities. They do not include unfunded pension liabilities. They do not include a variety of real debts. Anything that they can hide, they hide. If any business left these items off their books, the executives would be jailed.

The US comptroller is telling us some of this problem in his video. He also states quite accurately that the numbers he is talking about are actually low. That means that for purposes of his presentation he is estimating "conservatively." He is giving the lowest possible reasonable number so as to not overstate his case.

The $46 trillion in liabilities of the Federal Government in FY 2005 actually is significantly understated. No one who has looked at the numbers has disputed them for being too high.

luvnpeas · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject:

I was (without being very specific) referring to your claim that corporate executives who didn't classify all liabilities as debt would go to jail. In fact, it is proper accounting not to classify all liabilities as debt.

I'm not sure why people obsess over a gold standard. Gold has most of its value by convention, not utility. So, it is very similar in principle to paper money. If you wanted to base money on a tangible asset whose value didn't depend on convention, something like copper, oil or natural gas would make much more sense. Even silver has more practical use than gold.

thepeel · Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Onetheway is right.

AP
Accural method would show higher deficit

ontheway · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:50 am Post subject:

thepeel · Joined: 08 Aug 2004

The government can commit fraud for the same reason they can commit war crimes. They are the government. And people accept it. This will never change.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

ontheway · Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

That other test is completely wrong. The questions are not based on single choices. They have built in bias and are either intended to give skewed results or are based on total illogic. The choices are like this:

Choose one:

a) abortion legal and end the Iraq war
or
b) abortion illegal and kill all the arabs

If you want a little of (a) and (b) you get no choice.

For an accurate picture, you should use the one I put up:

Here it is again:

Try this quiz:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

This will give you an accurate political position.

Ron Paul comes out pure libertarian.

The political group that
agrees with you most is...

.

LIBERTARIAN

LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and

economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one

that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.

Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose

government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate

diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

The RED DOT on the Chart shows where you fit on the political map.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

thepeel · Joined: 08 Aug 2004

The question is this:

Is the AP wearing a "tinfoil hat"? They asserted that the government lied about their data. I believe that meets the criteria.

Kuros · Joined: 27 Apr 2004