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Voyeur
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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I've been reading a lot of threads. And for the life of me, I can't see what the big deal is from a teacher's perspective.
It does seem like Hogwons trying to get a teacher in at the last minute with no lead time will have problems.
But from a teacher's pov, unless:
- you have a criminal record
- have done drugs
- have an incurable STD like AIDS
are there really any major changes?
It just seems like you have to do a bit more paperwork, prepare for coming over a few weeks more in advance, and shell out a few more dollars (like maybe $100 more all told).
What am I missing? Will people who extend their VISAs or try to get a new VISA with a new employer actually have to fly to their home country as opposed to Japan?
As far as I can tell, this is not going to be the case. Am I wrong? I mean the only really big deal for 99% of us would be that you are in some way forced to return to your home country between jobs - and this doesn't seem to be the case, right? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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You have no idea what the ramifications of these new regulations are.
According to what they have are requiring, the criminal background check will be impossible to get.
They want Canadians to be checked for a "vulnerable sector search".
According to Canadian laws, individuals can not get these, only organizations can. So what are Canadians supposed to do?
Aside from that, if a person were able to get all the relevant documentation together, how are they supposed to get it approved?
Canada does not do "appostilles", so what are the requirements exactly?
Who knows?
How is anyone supposed to comply with regulations if nobody knows what they are supposed to do? |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
You have no idea what the ramifications of these new regulations are.
According to what they have are requiring, the criminal background check will be impossible to get.
They want Canadians to be checked for a "vulnerable sector search".
According to Canadian laws, individuals can not get these, only organizations can. So what are Canadians supposed to do?
Aside from that, if a person were able to get all the relevant documentation together, how are they supposed to get it approved?
Canada does not do "appostilles", so what are the requirements exactly?
Who knows?
How is anyone supposed to comply with regulations if nobody knows what they are supposed to do? |
and considering that canadians (along with americans) are the largest groups of foreign English teachers in korea, they really better address these issues and make sure canadians are aware of them |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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dont want to hijack this thread... but for some reason, i can imagine, if there is a drastic reduction in teachers due to these rules, such as not knowing what they are, or being impossible to fulfill (the like above poster mentioned for canadians) why do I see the Korean media stating that as evidence that so many of the FTs WERE people with criminal records, obtained fake degreess...
they would never think that their rules and not letting the FTs know the rules could be a problem. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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| Voyeur wrote: |
| It just seems like you have to do a bit more paperwork, prepare for coming over a few weeks more in advance, and shell out a few more dollars (like maybe $100 more all told). |
I guess you won a "free flight and hotel with every trip to the nearest Korean consulate because your country doesn't do apostilles and notaries don't stamp without you present" prize at some point in your life?
| Quote: |
| What am I missing? |
Obviously not the millions of won it seems will cost to get a new job after March. |
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Luna
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Location: seoul suburbs
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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| Voyeur wrote: |
I've been reading a lot of threads. And for the life of me, I can't see what the big deal is from a teacher's perspective.
It does seem like Hogwons trying to get a teacher in at the last minute with no lead time will have problems.
But from a teacher's pov, unless:
- you have a criminal record
- have done drugs
- have an incurable STD like AIDS
are there really any major changes?
It just seems like you have to do a bit more paperwork, prepare for coming over a few weeks more in advance, and shell out a few more dollars (like maybe $100 more all told).
What am I missing? Will people who extend their VISAs or try to get a new VISA with a new employer actually have to fly to their home country as opposed to Japan?
As far as I can tell, this is not going to be the case. Am I wrong? I mean the only really big deal for 99% of us would be that you are in some way forced to return to your home country between jobs - and this doesn't seem to be the case, right? |
Ok - I'll bite. I haven't said anything yet.
Well according to the Korean Herald article:
Apparently they also want our original diploma AND a notarized copy (and the diploma will be returned) unless we've already been verified. I've been verified at least 4 times this year for 4 different things so I don't have a lot of faith in that system.
I have concerns about the drug test and the "informal psychological self-evaluation". It sounds more like a witch hunt to me.
How can the Korean education officials differentiate between conditions and drug treatments that will affect a teacher's ability to teach? I don't think they'll bother to make the distinction and will just kick anyone who is medicated for a mental health condition/difference/syndrome/disorder out of the country.
What's to stop them from just looking for narcotics in the drug tests? Drug tests show more than narcotics. It would show allergy medicines, birth control pills, pain medication, etc.. I can just imagine a school going through the list and asking why each medication is necessary.
There are lots of medications that are used to treat conditions other than what the pill was originally designed for. I don't think that would be particularly easy to explain in Korea.
I think the students should be protected and the Korean government should be sure of the quality and lifestyle of the teachers the are allowing into this country. However, I'm really concerned that this will just turn into another way to discriminate against foreigners who are different.
You take birth control? You're a bad influence on students.
You have high blood pressure? You aren't healthy enough to teach.
etc..
I hope I'm wrong. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: On the bottom of the food chain
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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| Luna wrote: |
I think the students should be protected and the Korean government should be sure of the quality and lifestyle of the teachers the are allowing into this country. However, I'm really concerned that this will just turn into another way to discriminate against foreigners who are different.
You take birth control? You're a bad influence on students.
You have high blood pressure? You aren't healthy enough to teach.
etc..
I hope I'm wrong. |
i agree, and with the lack of privacy laws in this country, discrimination or having the whole school know your results (and other meds that aren't relevant) is a very real possibility.
i also believe, that quite frankly, korea can't be so picky. yes get rid of the drug users, criminals, etc. but the way they're going about this is unorganized and demeaning to all the foreign teachers. |
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Luna
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Location: seoul suburbs
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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| nomad-ish wrote: |
| Luna wrote: |
I think the students should be protected and the Korean government should be sure of the quality and lifestyle of the teachers the are allowing into this country. However, I'm really concerned that this will just turn into another way to discriminate against foreigners who are different.
You take birth control? You're a bad influence on students.
You have high blood pressure? You aren't healthy enough to teach.
etc..
I hope I'm wrong. |
i agree, and with the lack of privacy laws in this country, discrimination or having the whole school know your results (and other meds that aren't relevant) is a very real possibility.
i also believe, that quite frankly, korea can't be so picky. yes get rid of the drug users, criminals, etc. but the way they're going about this is unorganized and demeaning to all the foreign teachers. |
I could totally see the entire school knowing all about it. Not only that but they'd talk about it constantly. When I locked myself out of my house the first week I was here (they wouldn't teach me how to use the keypad) the ENTIRE school had to ask me about it. Whenever I get a package at my home address everyone has to ask me what it is.
I've also heard that they will require a TB test as part of the medical check-up. I've got no problem with that but I show a false-positive on the TB test. I've had a chest x-ray at home, and took medication for a brief bit but I don't have tuberculosis. I can't show any medical records proving that (because they're at home and we have privacy laws).
I really don't want to have another chest x-ray taken, lead aprons aren't very popular in this country and I like my ovaries functioning thank you.
Ok. I'm done whining. =D |
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demaratus
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Location: Searching for a heart of gold, and I'm gettin' old
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
You have no idea what the ramifications of these new regulations are.
According to what they have are requiring, the criminal background check will be impossible to get.
They want Canadians to be checked for a "vulnerable sector search".
According to Canadian laws, individuals can not get these, only organizations can. So what are Canadians supposed to do?
Aside from that, if a person were able to get all the relevant documentation together, how are they supposed to get it approved?
Canada does not do "appostilles", so what are the requirements exactly?
Who knows?
How is anyone supposed to comply with regulations if nobody knows what they are supposed to do? |
I am in the process of getting a visa right now and what you said is not exactly true. I have spoken with people at the Korean Embassy in Ottawa and at the Consulate in Vancouver. Both have confirmed that local police checks (Saskatoon city police in my case) are fine, and having had the check done on Friday, it included a vulnerable sector search, it says so right on the document. This is the good news, not having to do RCMP checks which with fingerprints, take up to 6 months.
The bad news as twg alluded to is the interview. I live in Saskatoon, a place that is very far away from Vancouver (the closest consulate). I am in Toronto over the holidays and inquired about doing the interview at the consulate there as it wold save me a significant amount of money for the flight and costs of travel (roughly $300 for the flight, and between $100-200 for hotel and meals). The embassy and consulate said it must be done in Vancouver, "too bad we are so sorry for your inconvenience". Why should a person have to bear these costs, especially when a telephone interview/video conference would do the same thing? I don't mind certifying my documents, taking a physical, taking a drug test, getting a police check ect... The interview inho is the biggest pain in the ass. |
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smwood
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Location: Over Here.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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In anticipation for the criminal check I went (along with an English-speaking Korean colleague) to the main Police Station in the largest city to where I live (I'm in Korea BTW).
I had obtained the correct (Internationally recognized) fingerprint form from the RCMP in Canada and requested the Korean police do the fingerprinting, so that I could send it back to Canada as per the new regulations - it includes a check-box for 'vulnerable sector'.
The detective in charge of Ident Division told my colleague he didn't trust me ~ nor my colleague ~ and that he would not do the fingerprinting because he thought I could use it for illegal purposes. Like any good, obedient bureaucrat he opted for suspicion over reason and denied me what I needed in a most obstructive and obnoxious manner. My colleague, a very helpful and polite man, was in a fury by the time we left the premises.
I guess my point here is that, even if we try to follow their procedures and jump through every hoop, it will be impossible to do what they want because other government departments here are kept out of the loop and don't understand the procedures.
It's hard to imagine my school, where I have taught for 2 years, being more inept when it comes to retaining proof of my credentials. I have lost count of the times I have been required to bring everything back in again for "verification" purposes.
I don't believe they will manage it now that the new regulations are here either. My notarized degree [copy] was never returned to me and has disappeared somewhere, never to be seen again. Needless to say, I shall not be returning to Canada to get duplicated documents that were lost by Korean school administrations.
Last edited by smwood on Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Voyeur
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for some good info. It is hard to sort through all the posts going on about this.
So back to the bottom line, I agree that if you are already at home and applying for your first job here then having to go to a consulate for an interview could suck. Usually you come here when you are broke and having to spend $500 to $1000 before coming to Korea just to go to a consulate could definitely be a problem.
But other than that, is there really anything in the changes that will make a current teacher have to RETURN home to get their documentation done or an interview or an Apostille - I livein Canada btw. |
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Luna
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Location: seoul suburbs
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Voyeur wrote: |
Thanks for some good info. It is hard to sort through all the posts going on about this.
So back to the bottom line, I agree that if you are already at home and applying for your first job here then having to go to a consulate for an interview could suck. Usually you come here when you are broke and having to spend $500 to $1000 before coming to Korea just to go to a consulate could definitely be a problem.
But other than that, is there really anything in the changes that will make a current teacher have to RETURN home to get their documentation done or an interview or an Apostille - I livein Canada btw. |
It seems like you'd have to return home if you changed jobs or schools and it wasn't possible or acceptable to get the criminal check mailed to Korea. I may be misinterpreting though. |
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Voyeur
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: E-2 Changes: Bottom line - what's the big deal? |
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| twg wrote: |
| Voyeur wrote: |
| It just seems like you have to do a bit more paperwork, prepare for coming over a few weeks more in advance, and shell out a few more dollars (like maybe $100 more all told). |
I guess you won a "free flight and hotel with every trip to the nearest Korean consulate because your country doesn't do apostilles and notaries don't stamp without you present" prize at some point in your life?
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Is this truly a catch-22 for Canadians? No way to meet the requirements without returning to Canada in person? |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Here's an idea: Get a job teaching in another country and send a copy of your clean criminal record and your clean drug test to your former school in Korea. |
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