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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| nope it isn't. Things seem rather complacent here in the good ol' US of A. Seems less confrontation and conflict between people the longer Bush has been in office. He has definitely been a uniter in his 2nd term, but not as he planned. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
I started posting when I was a "teacher". On the CE forum, Pluto, Kuros, BB, Gopher and others also no longer teach nor live in Korea.
Go have a cry, love. |
Perhaps even the majority of frequent posters on CE don't work nor live in korea.
If it isn't a majority, it is certainly a high %. This forum would become very quiet if those of us outside the country stopped posting. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: re: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| I would think the only thing that would prompt another civil war is if states tried to secede. I would think that if the supreme court ever ruled in favor of gay marriage that might cause some states to threaten to secede. |
I agree. Strange that America would have a second Civil War over a civil rights issue. That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries.
Peace |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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i said:
"i imagine a huge corporation getting upset with the US federal government and instead of moving to canada (like microsoft threatened to do before) they decide to move all of their facilities to a state with zero tax, like delaware...
company x understands that the US government won't like this so they buy up the entire state, build a wall around it, and effectively become a sovereign nation...
would you consider this to be civil war?"
thoughts? |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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No, I wouldn't. And it would never happen, Ernie. They would move to a country like Belize.
Have you ever heard of the concept of "flags of convenience"? It's what a lot of shipping companies do with their ships. By assigning the ship's home port to a country with little to no regulation in regards to shipping the company can then do whatever it wants, it even affects their rights in international waters.
Additionally, even in instances where companies have purchased entire nations, generally islands, the populace retains agreed upon rights. What you're talking about is more of an occupation by a corporation. That's quite a few steps toward distopia away.
The Libertarian party attempted to rally support to do something similar in the late 90's. The plan was for 50-100 thousand libertarians to move to a small state, Rhode Island or Delaware. Some wealthy Libs were even going to attempt to start businesses in the area to provide impetus/support to other Libs willing to move. At the time about 50 thousand people would have made a major impact in one of those states. The Libs would then control the State houses and Governorship, 2 Senators and the one Representative, giving them a voice in national politics. I wish they would have pulled it off. In the last few years two votes would have made a huge difference in the Senate. They could have effectively ended the two party system, and bolstered the Greens and other smaller parties. |
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Vlad Spinner
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: Obscenity-deleted |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| You've spent the last 4 years in an environment that was tightly sealed off from the rest of world and haven't the ability to understand the opinions of others without putting things into neat little groups of "fascist" or, cleverly enough, "*beep* Cheney". |
*Beep* Cheney!
LAUGHING OUT LOUD!
Thank ya. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: Re: re: |
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| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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The US is not like 50 little countries. We're not a true confederacy, that would be the equivalent of 50 little countries. The South lost the Civil War.
For that matter we're not a true democracy either. We're sort of in between the two, and it's only become worse of late. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
The US is not like 50 little countries. We're not a true confederacy, that would be the equivalent of 50 little countries. The South lost the Civil War.
For that matter we're not a true democracy either. We're sort of in between the two, and it's only become worse of late. |
It's a federal democratic republic.
And yes, united STATES, so I'd say we are 50 little countries. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| united STATES, so I'd say we are 50 little countries |
This is an unresolvable question because we are designed as both one and many at the same time.
First in the Declaration: The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America. When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to...
And later: We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States;
Then in the Constitution: 'We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." but that is followed by a description of the structure where one house represents states and one house represents people...and we vote for president (the only nationally elected government official) by States. It is clear that Washington wanted us to be one people, but it was politically impossible--and undesirable--for the Framers to ask the States to surrender their sovereignty. The federal structure is in line with the idea of dividing power among many centers in an effort to control power.
As Ken Burns famously pointed out, before the Civil War, it was 'the United States ARE'..., but during the War, it became 'the United States IS...'.
What changed the grammar? The common experience of the war for union, but also Lincoln gave it voice when he recreated the US in his vision with the Gettysburg Address (read Garry Wills' book) 'our fathers brought forth a new nation (not plural) on this continent, dedicated to the proposition... � that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom � and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.'
(This is why the slimy, disgusting revisionist libertarian historians have been attacking Lincoln these last few years.) |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| attacking Lincoln is like attacking Mother Teresa. Oh wait someone already did. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Oh wait someone already did. |
Was that supposed to mean something? |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
The US is not like 50 little countries. We're not a true confederacy, that would be the equivalent of 50 little countries. The South lost the Civil War.
For that matter we're not a true democracy either. We're sort of in between the two, and it's only become worse of late. |
It's a federal democratic republic.
And yes, united STATES, so I'd say we are 50 little countries. |
I'm not sure you know what the definition of republic is, so...
re�pub�lic (rĭ-pŭb'lĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. a. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
c. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
d. A nation that has such a political order.
2. a. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
often
3. Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.
Even so, I don't think we're strictly a republic. The existence of the electoral college convolutes the issue considerably. Some definitions state that the people "directly or indirectly" elect their officials, but that seems to be stretching the definition, to me at least.
We're definitely NOT 50 countries. If we were we would be more like the EU, where some laws are multinational, but individual nations still have the right to determine what is legal in their own country. Can Arizona legalized marijuana? Can Nevada legalize prostitution? No, federal laws preempt national laws, so we're NOT 50 seperate countries. In the future we may need to be for the sake of international competition. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| That's the major problem with our government in my opinion - it's like 50 little countries. |
As it was designed to be...and should be. |
As it was designed to be, no doubt, but not as it should be today. The republic was established for reasons no longer valid in our modern society.
Peace |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
Even so, I don't think we're strictly a republic. The existence of the electoral college convolutes the issue considerably. Some definitions state that the people "directly or indirectly" elect their officials, but that seems to be stretching the definition, to me at least. |
Hence democratic republic and not just republic.
| Quote: |
| We're definitely NOT 50 countries. If we were we would be more like the EU, where some laws are multinational, but individual nations still have the right to determine what is legal in their own country. Can Arizona legalized marijuana? Can Nevada legalize prostitution? No, federal laws preempt national laws, so we're NOT 50 seperate countries. In the future we may need to be for the sake of international competition. |
Well there is the 10th amendment, and EU law pre-empts national laws as well. each state has its own constitution and branches of govt mirroring the federal government's.
And Arizona did legalize marijuana, as did CA, albeit for medicinal purposes. |
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