| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Does your response mean that your answer was "nothing?" |
No. It provides additional confirmation that he only sees two absolute alternatives: antiAmerican or proAmerican.
Nonsense. |
additional confirmation?
additional to what?
you'll have to back up your claims if you want to be taken seriously around here Gopher.
Address by U.S. Ambassador Charles J. Swindells
| Quote: |
| Now that I have defined what anti-Americanism is, let me make very clear what it is not. I do not believe that factual, well-reasoned criticism of a U.S. Government policy or some aspect of American society is anti-American. Far from it! |
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:WtkwFE05m2YJ:newzealand.usembassy.gov/uploads/images/21G-YAXV5N-6LSnz26tvUA/August23.pdf+anti+americanism+dichotomy&hl=ko&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=kr&client=firefox-a
unless you come up with factual, well reasoned criticism, I'm left to charge you as being simply, 'anti-Loose_Ends'.
I'm willing to ignore the issue if you instead would like to constructively contribute to this discussion.
What's your take on the essay I posted? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sure. Whatever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| loose_ends wrote: |
| i don't see a worthy connect to objectivity one way or the other though. |
Really? You don't see how an objective person, regardless of their viewpoints, could find one positive thing to say about the United States government?
That's pretty lame, and it's a poor argument. It appears that you're just being obtuse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pligganease wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| i don't see a worthy connect to objectivity one way or the other though. |
Really? You don't see how an objective person, regardless of their viewpoints, could find one positive thing to say about the United States government?
That's pretty lame, and it's a poor argument. It appears that you're just being obtuse. |
You are assuming objectivity is achievable.
With that aside, I agree with your statement whether objectivity is involved or not. Thus I don't see a connect.
IF someone dislikes the American government completely and utterly, whether objectively or subjectively, that, in my opinion would make them anti-american.
I don't think we disagree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think the problem is:
anti-americanism = against americans
anti-americaism (no N) = against america
why not say anti-US instead? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I like Chomsky's take on it:
CHOMSKY: The concept "anti-American" is an interesting one. The counterpart is used only in totalitarian states or military dictatorships, something I wrote about many years ago (see my book Letters from Lexington). Thus, in the old Soviet Union, dissidents were condemned as "anti-Soviet." That's a natural usage among people with deeply rooted totalitarian instincts, [i]which identify state policy with the society, the people, the culture. In contrast, people with even the slightest concept of democracy treat such notions with ridicule and contempt. Suppose someone in Italy who criticizes Italian state policy were condemned as "anti-Italian." It would be regarded as too ridiculous even to merit laughter. Maybe under Mussolini, but surely not otherwise.[/i]
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20021209.htm
It is perfectly possible to completely disagree with policy and people and not be "anti...". Should anyone want to attack Harper I will not call them anti-Canadian and when I slam the PAP in Singapore my Singaporean peers do not call me anti-Singaporean.
Some abuse the anti-... slur. Koreans use "anti-Korean" WAY too much, and I see that the Chinese are getting the hang of it as well. African Americans, or those who assume to represent them (JJ, Sharpton) are masters of the criticism = anti... .
It is hardly exclusive to the United States, but a significant chunk of Americans use this concept far more than should anybody from a stable, liberal democracy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^thanks for the bit on chomsky. it is good take.
here is one for you guys.
i'm not a M. Moore fan. I think the world would be a better place without his documentaries. however, I wouldn't call him anti-american.
Glen Beck on the other hand:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t9HDh5KQIXY
lets take his analysis at face value for simplicity's sake.
is he right or wrong?
is M. Moore anti-american? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Another thing that seems to be often overlooked is that an American citizen can never be anti-American. An American is only using his or her rights as an American citizen.
Any other nationality that feels nothing but contempt for the United States can surely be dubbed "anti-American." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pligganease wrote: |
Another thing that seems to be often overlooked is that an American citizen can never be anti-American. An American is only using his or her rights as an American citizen.
Any other nationality that feels nothing but contempt for the United States can surely be dubbed "anti-American." |
So if an American feels nothing but contempt for his or her own country, culture, economy, government, and fellow citizens, that doesn't make him or her anti-american?
are you suggesting that only americans have the right to feel utter contempt for america without being called anti-american?
i personally believe anyone can be anti-american, as long as they have nothing but contempt for america and the american way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| loose_ends wrote: |
| So if an American feels nothing but contempt for his or her own country, culture, economy, government, and fellow citizens, that doesn't make him or her anti-american? |
According to me, no. It might make him or her a jackass, but not anti-American.
| loose_ends wrote: |
| are you suggesting that only americans have the right to feel utter contempt for america without being called anti-american? |
Yes.
| loose_ends wrote: |
| i personally believe anyone can be anti-american, as long as they have nothing but contempt for america and the american way. |
I guess that's your opinion.
You still haven't answered the question posed earlier. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pligganease wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| So if an American feels nothing but contempt for his or her own country, culture, economy, government, and fellow citizens, that doesn't make him or her anti-american? |
According to me, no. It might make him or her a jackass, but not anti-American.
| loose_ends wrote: |
| are you suggesting that only americans have the right to feel utter contempt for america without being called anti-american? |
Yes.
| loose_ends wrote: |
| i personally believe anyone can be anti-american, as long as they have nothing but contempt for america and the american way. |
I guess that's your opinion.
You still haven't answered the question posed earlier. |
I thought i answered your question.
You asked me if I dislike everything about the american government, right?
My reply was no. I do not dislike everything about the american government.
from page 1, I wrote:
| Quote: |
| no, my response doesn't mean 'nothing'. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Eyeball_Kid
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You know, in the final analysis, anti-American and pro-American are utterly useless designations. Why don't you discuss something more pertinent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Eyeball_Kid wrote: |
| You know, in the final analysis, anti-American and pro-American are utterly useless designations. Why don't you discuss something more pertinent. |
i actually started this thread because i've noticed the word anti-american thrown around this board several times.
you are totally right in noticing that there are more pertinent things. i think the whole dichotomy is rather useless.
however i've had to defend myself over this issue on several occasions so i thought discussing it might break down some barriers we all have.
never know, haha. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chomsky nailed it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I do not dislike everything about the american government.
|
That's too easy. Please specify. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
