Korean Job Discussion Forums

[agentX]

Fresh off the presses, the Korean Times has an editorial written by Alex Lee about how the English teacher issue is treated differently than the migrant worker issue.
And the fuse is lit...
http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2007/12/177_15767.html

[CentralCali]

Alex Lee, you are an ass.

[hogwonguy1979]

what an idiot. i wanted to throw something after reading it

[juicyhumdinger]

[CentralCali]

All my life, I've fought against racism both in my country and in whatever country I've found myself resident.

I guess we just found out komerican's real name, though!

BTW, humdinger, good (intentional) typo! "Stuck to some guy's Seoul," indeed!

[twg]

Well, it started out promising. 3D workers do get treated like shit here.

[PGF]

[lastat06513]

In some ways, he makes a point but in others he flaunts it and yet still in others he tries to break it down into Korean logic

Yes~ FTs CAN be considered migrant workers because they go to Korea for financial reasons and then move on (That is Korean rationale about this issue).

But~ is that to say that ALL foreigners are that way?
There are some foreigners (FTs and regular migrant workers alike) who want to stay in Korea, either because they developed a familial connection during their stay in Korea or because they simply like the country.

Is mostly the foreigners fault they can't integrate into Korean society?
That is also a two-prong answer- if the person doesn't like Korea, yes. But there is also a mentality in Korea that ALL foreigners are transient, that they have to leave eventually, so the average Korean sees no reason to deal with foreigners (There is no historical context other than the excuses they give).

I had seen this (and I'm not joking!), as WE might not be expected to know Korean, I had seen others get screamed at because they didn't address Koreans in Korean (By "others" I mean Filippinos, Sri Lankans, and even Russians). I once talked to an Uzbek factory worker in Dongdaemun and he said that when he arrived in Korea, he would be thrown out of places because he didn't speak Hanguel. Can we, also foreigners, say the same? (except those occasions where the restuarant proprietor politely refuses service to foreigners of certain nationalities [by that, I mean Americans during the high point of the anti-American sentiment in Korea])

But what if the foreigner CAN speak the language fluently (and I had met countless people who could) and yet, they still get chastized? Is it their fault or is it the fault of Korean logic and rationale.

And many people who write these articles forget to mention and what is the root of this problem- the new visa regulations. The immigration department has a nasty habit of not filing paperwork permanently (at USCIS, almost all applications are archived, you can find applications dating back to the 1940's, 50's and 60's but Korean immigrations can't file paperwork longer than a year) making the person file the same documents (which are the Degree diploma, sealed transcripts, criminal checks, medical checks, etc.) over and over again- if you don't believe me, wait until you have to renew or switch jobs after the one-year mark in March, 2009- it will become a bureaucratic nightmare for the applicant.

And why do foreigners have to leave after they finish every job?
Why can't Korea streamline the process so the person CAN stay in Korea yet renew their visa without the formalities of having to go home, get all the paperwork that they submitted before (just foreshadowing now...) and only then could they return to Korea.....I know they "promise" that a prior applicant could easily get their visa without going through all these formalities, yet remember that when dealing with immigrations, it is a case-by-case issue and also depends on the thoughts and feelings of the officer doing the application on that particular day. So one officer would say "You can do it here.." while I am going to speculate alot of officers would use the going home clause as an excuse to shoo foreigners away.....

All this goes against their aims of trying to become a "world hub" (which you don't hear about anymore..).
And if this was all just an election ploy, it is VERY scummy on the politicians part to play on the majority's fear of a minority.
Is this truly the 21st Century?

[Wisconsinite]

It is obvious to any educated person who read that article that the person has an ax to grind and an agenda to push.

Basically, he puts the blame on how migrant workers are treated as a problem of the white westerner. Yep, they are treated horribly but yet this is a problem deeply rooted in KOREAN immigration policys and in the mindsets of the KOREAN people. How many white westerners do you see treating badly and refusing service to migrant workers?

I particularly enjoyed how he stated that white westerners should shut up and take their medicine since western countries have treated immigrants to their country very badly in the past and even now. That may be true but I have never treated anyone with anything less than respect and kindness, so why lump me with the baddies? I think about my boyfriend, who came to study in America do anything he wanted without any trouble. He walked into a bank, got an account and a credit and debit card. He volunteered as he pleased and not ONE single organization rejected him for being a Korean. He used public transportation and public offices with no trouble (other than a language barrier). He even got his own library card based solely on an address and a passport. He was never refused entry into a nightclub, bar, or restaurant. My landloard gladly added him to the lease. There is no place for comparison. Opportunity and hope exists in America, not really sure it exists in Korea!

I really hate it when they publish this crap in the newspapers in Korea. To be fair, I also hate it when they publish this crap in American newspapers too.

[lastat06513]

When reading the final part of the article, the only term that comes to mind when referring to the author is that he's nothing more than a simple "Uncle Tom".

[Vicissitude]

[Bagpipes11]

I think the fundamental difference is that our country was built on immigrants. My family included. Back in the 1910's and 20's, Canada was still very segregated. Different ethnic groups did not mix as well as they do today.

Korea was not built on immigrants. Contrarily, foreigners were often invaders. Are Koreans extremely paranoid of E-2 Visa holders with no justifiable reason? DEFINITELY. Can I relate to their paranoia? NO. Was I raised in a homogeneous society? NO. (So basically, I try and understand their reservations they have and why they have them)

[Vicissitude]

[Bagpipes11]

Valid point, but you are comparing Apples to Oranges. If you re-read my post you will see that in no way do I agree with racist actions towards foreigners in Korea.

And no, KKK members in the deep south of America is not the same. The KKK has not been an entity for thousands of years without outside influence.

On that note, I have never heard of Koreans hanging a foreigner or burning little Buddha statues outside of my Villa.

[Mr. Pink]

I sort of get the point Alex is trying to make. Whites have been privileged for hundreds of years. To keep our privilege we have also been racist. However, in the last 50 years we have come forward by leaps and bounds.

Canada still has racists and racism. However, it is ILLEGAL for immigration to use racist policies in who they allow into the country. It has been like that since the 1970s.

Now as to the question of migrant workers in Korea, I think Alex needs to dig deeper. It isn't about race, but rather about CLASS. English teachers consider them somewhat professionals and based on their salary and living conditions, it puts them in a higher CLASS than the 3D workers. Thus, we don't have much in common besides how immigration treats us. And to be fair, until recently we were treated A LOT better. Even with these new regulations, E-2 workers are treated better than those on 3D visas.

As "professionals" we argue that it is insulting that we should have to submit documents repeatedly and undergo rigorous screening that leaves no room for logical compromise. Such as, if one is in Korea already, having to leave to have an interview OUTSIDE Korea, is pretty stupid. Consular staff already have a ton of things they must do, why not add a few jobs for Koreans in Korea to do such things? Again it shows just how new Korea is to the whole process of immigration.

3D workers do jobs that even Korean people won't do. I am not going to defend how Korea treats them, as Korea should learn from how other countries treated their poor working class migrants. Within Canada's history, we treated the Irish pretty bad in the 1840s and 50s, and later the Italians throughout the 1900s (until roughly 1970).

Alex should bring up the argument that in todays day and age, we have the benefit of learning from history. As well, we have the development of a human rights code in all industrialized countries and in many developing countries. As Korea is still considered a developing nation, they should jump on board to adopt a through human rights code that applied to EVERYONE. I know they have one, but it is not enforced to the full extent as industrialized countries.

Finally, Alex might have left his bias and bitterness at being a Korean America at the door, this would have given his argument more strength and perhaps opened him up to objectivity.

Alex, while I feel for you that you don't make as much money as a "whitey", you have many doors that are opened that most "whiteys" don't. Stop complaining about imbalance. If you are making less than the average E2 visa holder, you are doing something wrong.

Also, Alex, do you have to submit a criminal background check? I think you should, because you know a while back there was this Korean-American kid who went and shot a bunch of people at a university...so you know, there is a tendency for you Kyopos to be violent.