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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
| Let[']s say, "Man gives details of torture by US forces," or something like that? |
I would not see this as antiAmerican in the least -- nor would I call anyone who denounced a specific policy such as this one as antiAmerican, either.
AntiAmericanism has nothing to do with good criticism or even radical conclusions. AntiAmericanism has to do with what I described, above. |
Fair enough.
Would people who support a new investigation into the events of 9-11 be anti-american?
Would individuals be anti-american if they thought all 3 WTC towers were controlled demolition, based on solid evidence? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Belief in the 9/11 conspiracy-theory is not, in-and-of-itself, antiAmerican, in my view. Just stupid.
But someone who is convinced that only an evil American plot can explain 9/11 -- because that is how America is, sneer! -- and will accept nothing less than full confession that this is exactly what happened in 2001, and especially if you use this "story" disingenuously to further your attack against the United States more generally...well that would indicate an antiAmerican worldview to me, Loose_ends.
And, in any case, if you, as a Canadian, want to demand that Congress reopen the investigation, be my guest.
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:57 am; edited 4 times in total |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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overpost.
Last edited by dmbfan on Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:32 am; edited 3 times in total |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Fair enough.
Would people who support a new investigation into the events of 9-11 be anti-american?
Would individuals be anti-american if they thought all 3 WTC towers were controlled demolition, based on solid evidence? |
Two very good questions.
My answers are.........
1. No
2. No
It would be UNAmerican to question the legitimate FACTS, not bandwagon propaganda........like so many people in the world (especially foreign teachers in Korea). EVERYTIME someone wants to have a "debate" with me about this issue, Iraq and what not..............NOBOBY can come up with any documentation, facts or anything tangible. What they say is only regurgitation from poor media reporting. When I ask "So, what do you have to back up your claims and opinions?". The same things always happen.........
1. They get pissed off.
2. They put words in my mouth.
3. Constantly interrupting
4. Come up with clever jokes to take the pressure of actually having to
present their case (and people fall for it)
5. Ask close ended questions in order to try and make an argumentative
trap.
Same things........everytime (with a few exceptions).
But anyway, yes..........there is a wave of anti Americanism in the world. Some of it is legitimate, and some of it is crap. Many people will jump on the bandwagon to appear cool, mainstream or progressive when their friends around.........waste of time.
Do I think the U.S. government is good? With some things, yes. But with others, no. Do I think the American people are genuinely good people? Absolutely. Do I think that the media has an anti American agenda? Definitley, so. Do I think many people in the world are dumb enough to take it in? Of course.
But, at the end of the day......America is a great country. It is not what it used to be. Yes, there are politicians in office that DO NOT have the interests of the American people at heart. But, constantly putting Americans in the corner and blamming the problems of the world on the United States is easy, lazy and weak.
Oh yeah, Ameirca has had its hands in many cookie jars..........but so have many other countries.
But, it is not an American leader that killed 40 million of its own people.
It is is not America that solves its problems by conducting genocide.
It is not America that refuses to take a stance on anything.
It is not America conducts beheadings in a public square.
It is not America that stones a woman to death because she was found
guilty of being raped.
It is not America that has stated its mission is to whipe Isreal off the map.
It is not America that is killing prisoners/journalists and using their organs on the black market (at leat I hope not)
But, it IS America that.........
Will usually be the first to offer a home for those in need.
Will usually be the first to offer international aid.
Will usually come those in need.
Will send its own to die for others (although, this is something I am not
too crazy about..............and America is not the only one. Canada is doing an excellent job in the Middle East..........too bad they don't get the recognition they deserve).
Think about it..........if America is so bad, then why are so many wanting to get in?
Anyway............America is not perfect. It is an Empire. They rise and fall, and America will fall someday..........or at least share the same experience as England.
But, who would you rather have on your side?
China?
Radical Muslims?
Apathy?
Thats all.
dmbfan |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Belief in the 9/11 conspiracy-theory is not, in-and-of-itself, antiAmerican, in my view. Just stupid.
But if you, as a Canadian, want to demand that the American Congress reopen the investigation, be my guest. |
I feel like you have directly or indirectly called me anti-american in past threads.
I have always felt that to be unjustified.
Do you consider me anti-american?
edit:you edited your post, i'm going to leave the question standing, although your new edited post may contain the answer.
Last edited by loose_ends on Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Remind me where exactly I have called you antiAmerican in the past.
I think you may be swayed at least partly by antiAmerican assumptions and worldviews. But this would not make you fundamentally antiAmerican. And my overall impression of you is that you are rather dense and obsessed with the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Again, this is not antiAmericanism in-and-of-itself. |
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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Remind me where exactly I have called you antiAmerican in the past.
I think you may be swayed at least partly by antiAmerican assumptions and worldviews. But this would not make you fundamentally antiAmerican. And my biggest impression of you is that you are rather dense and obsessed with the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Again, this is not antiAmerican in-and-of-itself. |
It is true. I am obsessed with 9-11. I find some very disturbing problems surrounding this event. As such, I also see very disturbing problems in the policies that have resulted since then in response to it.
I believe the official 9-11 story is a myth for several reasons.
I believe that the evidence backing the official story is very weak. And I believe I can easily back that statement up with facts and very logical reason.
I further believe that the alternative hypothesis, controlled demolition, is the best hypothesis. I can also back this statement up with direct evidence.
I don't know who committed the crime however. You were correct in your post awhile back in stating that there is no direct evidence linking any criminal to the demolition theory. However, you were incorrect in thinking this meant there is no direct evidence showing an �alternative� crime occurred.
I don�t know who committed 9-11. But I believe a new investigation needs to be re-opened in attempts to answer many questions that still exist. This is key in discovering a method to rid the world of the �global� war on terror. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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This would only be a start of something that would require a long definition
IF someone engages in selective one sided criticism of the US consistently then they are anti US.
One is anti US if they against the US actions in general and think the actions of those fighting the US are more or less justified.
If one thinks the Bathsits the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists have a right to their war then they are anti US.
In general if one sympathizes with the enemies of the US and slander the US in revenge for the war on terror then they are anti US.
One is anti US if they slander the US govt. with 9-11 conspiracy theories in revenge for the US invading Iraq. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Remind me where exactly I have called you antiAmerican in the past.
I think you may be swayed at least partly by antiAmerican assumptions and worldviews. But this would not make you fundamentally antiAmerican. And my overall impression of you is that you are rather dense and obsessed with the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Again, this is not antiAmericanism in-and-of-itself. |
How those PJ's treatin you G? Warm sleepin?
Ideas on their merits, right? |
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adeline
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| confusing the opposition to american policies and the general hatred of america as an entity or symbol, or the american people is common and not new. It is often difficult for peole to understand particular policies but very easy to say this country is bad, or this person is bad. Why else would propaganda be so focused on making the other countries people look (physically) evil, or ugly? Why, in countries that love america, have people say strange things like, "the streets are made of gold"? Because it is difficult to wrap your head around the vast number of policies and aspects that make it a great place to live. It is also more satisfying in some ways to explain that your family was killed, or your economy was ruined, not by an incredibly complex set of circumstances with many causes and no one thing to be held accountable, but by "america". |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed in this thread that "Anti-Americanism" is exactly the same as "People who don't agree with my conservative politics"
Because it's kind of funny how obvious it's been. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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The term "anti-American" is the current incarnation of the 1950's epithet "un-American" which was used at that time to silence dissent.
For more information, look up the House UnAmerican Activies Committee and Sen. Joseph McCarthy. |
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