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| Are dictators ever good? |
| Bloody hell no! |
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22% |
[ 10 ] |
| Sometimes |
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22% |
[ 10 ] |
| Perhaps |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Perhaps sometimes |
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17% |
[ 8 ] |
| Very often, they are. |
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17% |
[ 8 ] |
| Sometimes no worse than democracy, when all is said and done |
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11% |
[ 5 ] |
| I'll have to think about this some more |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I couldn't give a rat's arse! |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 45 |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Big Bird:
Good thread topic again: here's my take. Evidently the Leftists who opposed the war in Iraq felt that Saddam Hussein was entitled to remain in power. At least that's the impression they made with their ho-hum "let the Iraqi people decide their own fate" refrain. While I'm not sure we should have come to their rescue (given the reception we've gotten), it's interesting to me how those of different political and ideological stripes tolerate one of their own. |
I don't really understand this. Are you saying that lefties that opposed the war did so because they supported Saddam? I hardly think that's the case. I would wager most 'leftists' would agree the man was a vile psychopath. There were plenty of reasons to oppose the war, Saddam aside.
Certainly the invasion has proved to be nothing but a tragedy for the majority of Iraqis. Only the loonies, psychopaths and religious fanatics seem to have flourished (thanks to Bush and co's clever idea to disband the military and police and create a power vacuum). The invasion has made many Iraqis, who once hated Saddam with a passion, wish to hell they were still living under his regime. Nice one. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Jimskins
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Like Milwaukiedave said, Park Chung Hee is loved my many of the older generation in Korea. He may have 'wasted a lot of bullets in the back' but he pretty much built Koreas economy, 'the miracle on the Han' and all that. Or so I understand from my 'History-Time' pop-up-book. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody who thinks the answer to this question is simple or obvious should read Fareed Zakaria's The Future of Freedom.
Put simply, a good dictator is better than a bad democracy. If full suffrage and free elections were granted to the Middle East tomorrow, most of the countries there would freely vote themselves right into Islamic law, which is nigh the ultimate in illiberalism.
By contrast, their current autocratic rulers are far more liberal than the people they govern. This was also true of European nation-states during the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance.
It's not enough to have democracy. You need liberal democracy (i.e. the rule of law, checks and balances, guaranteed freedoms etc.). Otherwise you end up with a simple "tyranny of the majority" which is as bad as, or even worse than, the average dictator. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Peru's Fujimori Apologizes For State-Sponsored Killings
Fri Dec 21, 2:04 PM ET
LIMA (Reuters) - Former Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori acknowledged on Friday that human rights abuses happened under his rule and apologized to families whose loved ones were killed in a war against leftist insurgents.
"I ask for forgiveness," Fujimori, 69, said at his trial on human rights crimes that could put him in jail for up to 30 years. "This pained my soul."
Despite the apology, Fujimori denied ordering a government death squad to kill 25 people and kidnap two others in the 1990s, when Peru was battling the Maoist guerrilla group known as the Shining Path.
CONT'D ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071221/wl_nm/peru_fujimori_dc |
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jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
Anybody who thinks the answer to this question is simple or obvious should read Fareed Zakaria's The Future of Freedom.
Put simply, a good dictator is better than a bad democracy. If full suffrage and free elections were granted to the Middle East tomorrow, most of the countries there would freely vote themselves right into Islamic law, which is nigh the ultimate in illiberalism.
By contrast, their current autocratic rulers are far more liberal than the people they govern. This was also true of European nation-states during the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance.
It's not enough to have democracy. You need liberal democracy (i.e. the rule of law, checks and balances, guaranteed freedoms etc.). Otherwise you end up with a simple "tyranny of the majority" which is as bad as, or even worse than, the average dictator. |
Eh I wouldn't be pointing to the Middle East as an example of good dictators. Personally I think the M.East would benefit from bad democracy since now they have bad authoritarian governments. Exceptions are the UAE, Oman, and perhaps Jordan and Bahrain.
I'd say sharia w/a growing economy is better than no sharia with a corrupt gov't and a stagnant economy. Remember, just because a country might not have sharia doesn't mean it is a beacon of civil liberties either. Prime examples include Egypt and Syria.
Last edited by bucheon bum on Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| If the question is "can they" then the answer is yes. LKY in Singapore did amazing things in the 60's-80's. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| There is something contradictory about using murder and killing to achieve peace... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| There is something contradictory about using murder and killing to achieve peace... |
Yet it works sometimes. Gotta love irony. |
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