Korean Job Discussion Forums

[santalucia]

How can you decide if a recuiter will screw you? Simple. Ask for the going rate for your skills and experience and then watch how the bovine excrament, followed by insults flow. This recruiter opperates from his home (I think) since there is no actual office address. He goes by the name of Jeff, his email is [email protected] and his cell phone number is 010 9292 2043. Haunts WorknPlay and other sites, but his attitude is enough to ring alarm bells. Here's the emails he send me. Starts of friendly and then turns nasty.


____________________

Hello Santalucia,

I am looking for teacher for the morning part time jobs,
Please let me know if you still available,,
also please have a look abt our available positions,,

thanks

jeff

[List of jobs which pay between 30,000 and 35,000: too low for corporate work for a teacher with an MA, CELTA, and five years teaching experience.] The going rate is at least 40,000 KRW for this kind of work. ]

_______________________________________

Dear Jeff -

The hourly rates are too low to be worth considering unless there are several consecuative hours at the same venue. This is because of transport costs. And I would normally ask for 40,000 per hour unless it was an especially good position.

Kind regards,

Santalucia
_____________________________________

Hi Santalucia

Maybe you are right , because there is some jerks who are positing some positions with 40 per hour ,
But they will screw you and they will not pay you after a while, so you will not get even 25 in the total if you count it ,

Our positions are very secured ,
We work with only one franchise school,and it's a very sophisticated franchise school,and for long terms positions,,

We really want to offer more , but we cannot because that's the limits,
I hope that you think wisely abt my offers ,and i wish you luck whatever it will be your point of view,

cheers

jeff

[ OK, still friendly, but it doesn't get past finely tuned bovine excrament detectors. I've done work for more elsewhere. He'll be charging the company more, taking his cut, which might be up to 1/5 of the rate he wants to pay me... no way. Been here too long. Anyway...]
________________


Dear Jeff

I'm not a newbee and I have lived here a really long time. I know this industry like the back of my hand. I know you are charging the corporates at least 50, possibly more for someone with my rather extensive experience and qualifications. My rate is 40 an hour plus transport.

Kind regards

Santalucia

[Jeff gets pissed off because I know stuff about his industry. As a foreigner, I'm not supposed to know what goes on, but live my life in merry ex-pat ignorance while he take a large slice of the cake. This is where he starts showing his true colours. ]
__________________________

Santalucia:

You think you know everything ??
If you lived here for a long while,so i bet you understand some Korean ,
you can assist me and we will talk abt everything in front of you ,
you can ask the director directly if you want , , and everything will be clear then ,
Just do not play the smart ,this industry is getting harder ,
do you think that the schools will pay 50.000 for a long term positions >??
Noway , not even in the dreams ,
They pay that amount only on the temporary positions ,and few hrs,,

I hope you understand what i mean ,and i am always willing to co-operate ,
and i am ready to open everything to you ,just to prove that you are ssoooooooooo wrong ,

Cheers

Jeff

_____________________________

Dear Jeff

There is absolutely no point in getting emotional. Teachers are getting more expensive, so your margins are tighter. This is a fact in the industry, and I have lived, worked, studied and taught in South Korea for three years. My price is 40 plus transport. I won't teach for lower. If you don't like this, you don't have to hire me, there are plenty of other people in Korea willing to pay this or more.

Incidentally, I also require recruiters to pay me weekly, and to sign my contract. I don't sign yours. As I said, I know this industry really well. And writing "You think you know everything?" in a business email is completely unacceptable and rather rude.

Sincerely

Santalucia

____________________________

Whatever ,,

I am still standing for what i said, and that was just a reply for what you wrote earlier in your eamil,
If i am rude , you are insane,

good luck boss,

[email unsigned].

_______________________

Dear Jeff,

You are being very offensive and making a serious mistake. Remember that teachers in Korea share information about recruiters and employers on the Internet and you will damage your reputation with this unprofessional behaviour. Such lack of respect for teachers is indicative of poor business ethics and teachers would be well to avoid you.

You have no right to contact me, offer work, and then insult me when I ask for the proper going rate for a teacher with my skills, experience and qualifications. I am not insane, merely well-informed, and it's clear that you cannot handle the fact that a foreigner might know something about the way business is done here. This attitude is precisely why most good teacher avoid recruiters. I think you owe me an apology, or at least sign up for a business English course and learn how to write professional emails.

Unfortunately, no business English class can teach you how to respect other people. I think its best if you rethink your business strategy. At this time, I cannot do business with you.

Sincerely

Santalucia

______________________________________

End of email correspondence (on this occasion).

So, to Jeff and all the other dodgy recruiters out there, large and small.

Don't play smart: no Jeff, I AM smart, smarter than you, and that's why your emails are going up here, along with your contact information. It's my hope that this will encourage more respectful and professional business practice.

Teachers be warned: this is how this guy treats PROSPECTIVE teachers. I'd hate for him to actually owe me money. Lack of respect is always indicative of poor ethics. I strongly advise caution when dealing with this recruiter. To schools, companies and organisations: please advertise directly for teachers. We prefer to work with our clients without an unprofessional middleman - or company - taking a slice of the cake.

Santalucia.

[prairieboy]

I wouldn't have even responded to him in the first place.

Jackasses like that aren't worth the effort.

[cbclark4]

I see nothing in your email or his to be offensive.

It was an offer without an acceptance, no meeting of the minds,
why agitate?

[nomad-ish]

i agree with the OP, he was rude and definitely unprofessional. i usually avoid korean recruiters (unless they come highly recommended) and this is a perfect example of why!

[CasperTheFriendlyGhost]

The OP seems rather childish to me. Why not let the offer pass instead of going out of your way to push the guy's buttons repeatedly and then try to get others to harrass him for you?

You should edit your post immediately and offer the poor schmuck an apology for your unprofessional behavior.

[normalcyispasse]

[JamesFord]

I dunno, you both seem like jackasses.

[ella]

[CentralCali]

I'm not sure about this. The recruiter's English skills seem to be a cut or two above the recruitee's. For another, Jeff was quite polite in response to Santalucia's rudeness. And Santalucia's tactic is to tell Jeff that he'll try to ruin Jeff's reputation and business? Brilliant move, "boss." In your vast experience of three years in country, have you never encountered the libel/slander laws of Korea?

[Ilsanman]

I am guessing this recruiter is a badly educated westerner or a bitter gyopo. It's hard to tell.

Anyways, both parties are unprofessional, but the recruiter more. If he were the bigger man, he wouldn't have replied again to the mails. But don't count on a recruiter, especially a Korean recruiter to be the bigger man.

[NightSky]

Recruiters in general are quick to get snippy, I've found.

[santalucia]

Hi Again ,
Your emails still have that arrogance meaning ,
You still think that you know all and you are the only one who can decide and judge others.
Let put things clear ,i contacted you with a propositions , so you had just to take or to refuse it ,
But you just start judging me and my work ,

I don't owe you any apology , because i didn't do anything wrong ,
You were judging me and i replied, you said i am rude and i said you are insane ,

Com'on [Santalucia] ,be rational and admit that you went far with your emails,

All your emails full of insults an i am sorry that you are representing the foreigners image,
and abt your threats, that's another face of arrogance,i do not want to stand down at that level ,

All what i can say , i wish you a good luck with in Korean ,and i do not represent Koreans, i represent just myself .
Maybe i am wrong , maybe i am right ,


Thrully

_________________

The reason why I probe character and motivations is to find out what kind of person I will be doing business with.

Cali, you are entitled to your opinion but I was not rude. I merely insisted on the going rate. My emails were not full of insults. His were, and it got personal very quickly because of unprofessionalism and (I think) a general contempt for teachers. He tried to spin me a line and patronise me. He got burned. It's just business.

I get accused of being "insane", which, if you know Korean culture or language at all, is a major insult. What Jeff is objecting to is my insistance that he pays the market rate, which he terms of arrogance. I call it being firm and professional. He also doesn't realise that judging the business and character of any potential associates is part of my job.

And yes, all my time in Korea has taught me exactly how to deal with recruiters. Very very firmly. If their reputations need to suffer a little for them to start behaving honourably and professionally, so be it. I'm a teacher here 24/7. But its not just English I teach. Respect has nothing to do with your level of English.

[The Hammer]

From an earlier thread...

[The Hammer]

Santalucia,

Reality Check

1. If you are so knowledgeable why are you only asking for 40K+ transport?
2. If you are so knowledgeable why aren't you setting up your own gigs?

Hammer

[pkang0202]

The best recruiters in the world work for the US military. Its true. Military recruiters are amazing. They can sweet talk you like you wouldn't believe. They can make "infantry soldier" sound like a vacation in Maui.