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NightSky
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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 Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
1. low violent crime rate
2. fairly high regard for being industrious and staying slim
3. lots of eye candy (doesn't usually melt in the mouth or hands, though)
4. efficient public transport
5. odong floors
6. compulsory military conscription
7. routinely giving up bus seats to those older
8. respect for teachers and the teaching profession (relatively speaking)
9. sense of national pride (despite the nationalism)
10. abundance of churches |
And in addition to the fact that you clearly don't know what this thread is about...dude...what the hell is an odong floor? |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Conscription makes the men grow up and learn to work hard and respect authority. Too many foreign teachers in Korea have a poor work ethic.
Still, I am glad I am not subject to conscription. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: Good things about Korea |
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| -no pushy crowds (guess the poster has witnessed Costco free sampling) |
Steve: to elaborate, I was referring to the horrific experience I had in the peak hour subway in Shanghai. I literally had to scream at people & use my suitcase as a battering ram, to get off the train at my stop. The concept of queuing is alien to many Chinese. I also had problems in Sumatra on the boat to Singapore. The Seoul subway is a dream, in comparison, & so is travel around Korea in general. I'm not a member of Costco, & have never been there so can't comment. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| NightSky wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
1. low violent crime rate
2. fairly high regard for being industrious and staying slim
3. lots of eye candy (doesn't usually melt in the mouth or hands, though)
4. efficient public transport
5. odong floors
6. compulsory military conscription
7. routinely giving up bus seats to those older
8. respect for teachers and the teaching profession (relatively speaking)
9. sense of national pride (despite the nationalism)
10. abundance of churches |
And in addition to the fact that you clearly don't know what this thread is about...dude...what the hell is an odong floor? |
Maybe he means 'Udong floor...?'
Maybe it's what he calls the after effect of coming home and throwing up after a noodle dinner and too much soju...? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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He means 온돌. (Ondol). Good job of pretending not to understand.
| venus wrote: |
| NightSky wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
1. low violent crime rate
2. fairly high regard for being industrious and staying slim
3. lots of eye candy (doesn't usually melt in the mouth or hands, though)
4. efficient public transport
5. odong floors
6. compulsory military conscription
7. routinely giving up bus seats to those older
8. respect for teachers and the teaching profession (relatively speaking)
9. sense of national pride (despite the nationalism)
10. abundance of churches |
And in addition to the fact that you clearly don't know what this thread is about...dude...what the hell is an odong floor? |
Maybe he means 'Udong floor...?'
Maybe it's what he calls the after effect of coming home and throwing up after a noodle dinner and too much soju...? |
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The Hierophant
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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-.
Last edited by The Hierophant on Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Biblethumper wrote: |
| Conscription makes the men grow... hard and... I am glad. I am. |
That's what SHE said. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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byunhosa asked:
| Quote: |
| Steve, out of curiosity, why did you cite #6? Most Korean roundly criticize this. |
I've seen many young, aimless, spoiled Korean college men dread induction and return with a clearer sense of purpose. It's jolts them back into reality, makes them more self-disciplined, and often helps them to find a suitable career path. Moreover, as one who comes from a military background myself, I think it does instill a certain degree of patriotism which, I strongly feel, should be kept distinct from blind nationalism. And I'll wager that the other vets posting on these forums feel pretty much the same way.
| Quote: |
| Also, I am afraid #7 is fading fast, unfortunately. |
That's too bad and is indicative of indulgent youth and "modernization." When I was a kid I was taught to do the same. To this day whenever I see an old person I always shows deference. And I give up my seat to women I guess to be over 50 and women with young children. It's called being a gentleman. But I like to see adolescents give up their seat for anyone who is an adult. That is revealing of good parenting.
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| Regarding #9, I don't want to sound negative but I think most Koreans are nationalistic (i.e. defensive) but not patriotic, and they are painfully aware of Korea's status as a general non-factor on the global scene; hence, their utter bewilderment at why foreigners would want to live here. |
I agree with you but I think a lot of what passes for nationalism here is a defensive posturing because of their geo-political isolation as you stated and because of their recent colonial past. I find it fascinating that you connect their bewilderment about expats to their relative exclusion from geo-politics. Care to elaborate?
chrisJ2 and Ilsanman:
Thanks for the assist on heated Korean floors. I knew I didn't have the spelling down but you know I've never tried to pass off even basic proficiency in Korean (heck, I'm still learning Mandarin Chinese, my second foreign language).
chrisJ2 explained:
| Quote: |
| Steve: to elaborate, I was referring to the horrific experience I had in the peak hour subway in Shanghai. |
Oh, yes, I see what you mean. Yeah, this is a huge problem in most of China, I'm afraid. And Lord knows I've dealt with it enough. Train stations are by far the worst for this crowd behavior. I'm surprised this happened to you in Shanghai since it's one of the few mainland cities where most Chinese queue up for the bus, at least. (Incidentally, Hong Kongers usually queue up--a habit absorbed from a century of British rule to be sure). Not to be an apologist but it's getting better at bus stops nationwide and we must remember that so much of this behavior is a direct result of living in a country which until very recently required cutthroat competing for limited resources. And let's face it: a bargain in a store is likely to cause a mad rush not only in Korea but a lot of Western countries. Then it often comes down to one's upbringing as to how it manifests itself. But I must say this: I have been bumped and nudged, even shoved, far more in Korean supermarkets than in those in China, so it's also situational, it would seem.
Hierophant:
Interesting: I've never heard this said before but I don't doubt your sincerity for a moment and I'm glad you've found contentment here. Your unusual situation speaks to the adage "a place somewhere for everyone."
Highlander76 got snippy again:
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| Nobody is amused by your insights, so why don't you just take it somewhere else? Clearly nobody here wants your negativity, so why do you persist when almost every other thread on Dave's would allow you to go negative without a problem? Grow up and/or give it up. |
Oh, you did a survey, too? I never intended for you to be amused and I wasn't being sarcastic. If you feel I'm being too pessimistic, well, that's a reasonable criticism but of course I beg to differ.
If my purpose was strictly to sour the mood or cut the good tidings short I would have made my first post to this thread before page 6.
Now before you get your undies in a bundle remember your're wearing a kilt and that little put-put scooter you're riding is already embarrassing enough. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Steve Mcgarret wrote -
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I've seen many young Korean college men, make them disciplined, and often... as one who comes, I think it does instill a certain degree of patriotism which, I strongly feel. And I'll wager that the other vets posting on these forums feel pretty much the same way.
When I was a kid I was taught to do the same... to women over 50 and young children. But I like to see adolescents... That is revealing...
| Quote: |
| most Koreans are painfully aware of... utter bewilderment at why foreigners would want to on heated Korean floors. I knew I didn't... but you know I've never tried to peak... in Shanghai. |
Oh, yes, I mean.... Yeah, this is huge in China. And Lord knows I've dealt with it enough. Train stations are by far the worst for this crowd... this happened from a century of British rule to be sure... but it's getting better and we must remember that I have been bumped in Korean supermarkets... in China.
I've never found contentment here. I beg to... my purpose was strictly to get your undies... |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Fruit markets are great too. Any time of year in fact. Pears and Karm(persimmons) are delicious and cheap in the winter. Sick of the mandarins though. Summer has a lot of fruit bargains, if you are patient and willing to look around.
Tabang girls are helpful. I moved to a small country village, and reconnoitered the tabang with the cutest of girls. Girls mostly come from the bigger cities, but they clean my house, and wash my clothes when I order a juice. Winter it seems has them all bundled up, and covered. In the summers they wear their flimsy see through stuff I'd say.
I hitch hiked once, and got a ride for a good 200 kilometers.
Motels are cheap and everywhere. Most of them provide good service, and you can get them to bring the prices down in the winter.
There is no shame with singing in this country. Even if you can't sing , people will still give you a rousing hand. In the west, it's a major life preparing, and traumatic experience to sing in public. Wish we in the west were a little more thick skinned with regards to our vocal musical abilities, and not so reliant on booze to sing.
Kimbap Nara has good cheap Korean food deliveries. |
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NightSky
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| He means 온돌. (Ondol). Good job of pretending not to understand. |
I was commenting on the fact that someone who doesn't even know the proper word (not even close, so don't pretend it was a typo) for the Korean heating system is more than likely not qualified to expound at length on all things Korean.
Last edited by NightSky on Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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byunhosa
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Center Ice
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: |
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byunhosa asked:
| Quote: |
| Steve, out of curiosity, why did you cite #6? Most Korean roundly criticize this. |
I've seen many young, aimless, spoiled Korean college men dread induction and return with a clearer sense of purpose. It's jolts them back into reality, makes them more self-disciplined, and often helps them to find a suitable career path. Moreover, as one who comes from a military background myself, I think it does instill a certain degree of patriotism which, I strongly feel, should be kept distinct from blind nationalism. And I'll wager that the other vets posting on these forums feel pretty much the same way.
OK but in my case, you'd lose that wager. I do not think compulsory service is in any nation's best interests, and I am not the only former officer (by a long shot) who feels this way. Apart from that principle, I do not think serving as a conscript in the ROK military is anything close to serving in the US (or UK, etc.) military in terms of the quality of the experience, skills acquired (be they technical or leadership, etc.), travel opportunities (obviously), and the like. If handled properly, it could be all of the things you describe, but for the most part is is as wasteful as serving time in prison (maybe more; at least you can lift weights in prison). I am sure a few of the spoiled "wangjas" are bettered by it, but many or not. Sometimes I think military service and the educational "pressure cooker" combine to leave many Korean men shell-shocked. Some never recover.
Koreans are pretty incredulous that I would voluntarily join the service and astonished to hear me speak fondly of my time in service. My Korean wife positively loathes the mlitary and often says she is sorry I had to "waste my time in the mlitary". I used to argue a bit with her, but I understand her perspective now (that's a whole different thread).
| Quote: |
| Regarding #9, I don't want to sound negative but I think most Koreans are nationalistic (i.e. defensive) but not patriotic, and they are painfully aware of Korea's status as a general non-factor on the global scene; hence, their utter bewilderment at why foreigners would want to live here. |
I agree with you but I think a lot of what passes for nationalism here is a defensive posturing because of their geo-political isolation as you stated and because of their recent colonial past. I find it fascinating that you connect their bewilderment about expats to their relative exclusion from geo-politics. Care to elaborate?
[
My point (perhaps not well articulated) is that Koreans, more than anyone, recognize the shortcomings/limitations of their society. They are very surprised and puzzled to see foreigners from wealthy, Western countries coming here, and assume many have a nefarious agenda of some kind (which leads to the suspicion and sometime hostility often cited on this board). This is why they often ask when we plan to "go back". It doesn't mean they don't want us here, as some here suspect; it just means they can't quite figure out why a Westerner would want to stay.
They are in Korea because they, well, are Koreans; so what is our excuse? |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone is going on about cheap public transport and i will admit it is good but for me I like the fact that I can have a cheap car.
Other young men ( and to a lesser extent women) from the UK will know how expensive it is to drive. I own a car in Korea because it shaves 30 mins off my journey to work half way up a mountain (and its just nice to have one)
It is refreshing to be able to buy a decent hatch back for a grand and insure both me and my girlfriend for a year for less than 200 quid. Damn, I even enjoy driving in korea, at least everyone does the same crazy stuff so its predictable and its completely OK to do things on the road that would make people in england follow you back to your house...
otherwise
2) Money
3) My apartment
4) My girlfriend (who isnt even Korean)
5) Kimbab Cheonkuk is alright I suppose
6) My western friends
7) Easy and somewhat rewarding Job
 Hanguel is easy
9) The way you can transfer money with ease by ATM
10) Fried Chicken |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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byunhosa replied:
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| Apart from that principle, I do not think serving as a conscript in the ROK military is anything close to serving in the US (or UK, etc.) military in terms of the quality of the experience, skills acquired (be they technical or leadership, etc.), travel opportunities (obviously), and the like. If handled properly, it could be all of the things you describe, but for the most part is is as wasteful as serving time in prison (maybe more; at least you can lift weights in prison). |
I see now where you're coming from. Certainly the experience isn't well conceived here--you'll get no argument from me on that score. It's yet another example of attending to form rather than function, i.e. it's more important to give the appearance of having been trained than to actually provide it. And yes, it can be a lot like a bad boot camp for delinquent youth. But I'd rather see it reformed rather than eliminated (but we both know neither is likely to happen). Side Note: what soured American young men on conscription was the unfairness of the Vietnam War draft rather than the process itself. I'm ambivalent about the issue since the brass (at least in the U.S.) continue to say that a volunteer force is smarter if not more trainable. Frankly, I'd like to see two levels of service: one that's mandatory in a national guard and the other voluntary in the regular service.
| Quote: |
| I am sure a few of the spoiled "wangjas" are bettered by it, but many or not. Sometimes I think military service and the educational "pressure cooker" combine to leave many Korean men shell-shocked. Some never recover. |
Regimentation is not for the faint of heart; especially if they've been spoiled, indulged, and sheltered by their parents (which describes an inordinate number of young Korean men these days).
NightSky defended:
| Quote: |
| I was commenting on the fact that someone who doesn't even know the proper word (not even close, so don't pretend it was a typo) for the Korean heating system is more than likely not qualified to expound at length on all things Korean |
I see. So following your convoluted logic, if one misses a detail of living in a particular culture, all other observations made of the locals' customs and conduct is suspect. Your inductive reasoning skills need to be sharpened as much as your crayons.
Len8 wrote:
| Quote: |
| Fruit markets are great too. Any time of year in fact. Pears and Karm(persimmons) are delicious and cheap in the winter. Sick of the mandarins though. Summer has a lot of fruit bargains, if you are patient and willing to look around. |
You haven't traveled Asia much, have you? The selection and price of fruit in Korea is the worst I've seen among seven countries in this region that I'm familiar with.
How often do you find a variety of apples, for instance? Usually it's the same bland Korean one. Except for Costco, how often do you get a variety of oranges? Jeju doesn't even produce one of the better varieties of mandarin oranges. |
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