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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:52 am Post subject: Korean verb questions |
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With the verb �ɴ�, which is correct: �ɽ��ϴ�, or �������ϴ�?
With the verb �˴�, which is correct: �Ƹ�, �˸�, or ������?
Also, is �� �� or ���� �� correct?
One last question: does anyone know where I can get a complete list of irregular verbs and their irregularities?
I've tried the library, the bookstore, and my shelf of Korean grammar textbooks. If I can't find a complete list, I'll be back on this forum repeatedly, pestering everybody with Korean verb questions.
(To turn the garbage into hangul, click on Bogi/Inkoding/Hangul.) |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Korean verb questions |
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| tomato wrote: |
With the verb �ɴ�, which is correct: �ɽ��ϴ�, or �������ϴ�?
With the verb �˴�, which is correct: �Ƹ�, �˸�, or ������?
Also, is �� �� or ���� �� correct?
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As merely a beginner, I'm guessing the second example in each is correct.. I look forward to hearing the definitive answer from someone. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Korean verb questions |
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| tomato wrote: |
�ɽ��ϴ�
�˸�
�� ��
One last question: does anyone know where I can get a complete list of irregular verbs and their irregularities? |
The irregular verbs are consistent so you wouldn't need much of a list. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:51 am Post subject: |
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With the verb �ɴ�, which is correct: �ɽ��ϴ�, or �������ϴ�?
�ɽ��ϴ� is correct.
With the verb �˴�, which is correct: �Ƹ�, �˸�, or ������?
�˸� is correct.
Also, is �� �� or ���� �� correct?
�� �� is correct.
�� is different from others like ��...were it a verb like �Դ� it would be ���� ��, or with �ݴ� it would be ���� ��. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Ah, here's another tip when you're not sure about a verb tense. Go to google.co.kr and do a search with each one. The incorrect one should turn up nothing or just a few pages with typos but the correct one will result in hordes of pages.
For example, a search of �ɽ��ϴ� brings in 243000 results whereas �������ϴ� brings in... zero.
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:28 am Post subject: |
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oops... wrong again  |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Korean verb questions |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
With the verb �ɴ�, which is correct: �ɽ��ϴ�, or �������ϴ�?
With the verb �˴�, which is correct: �Ƹ�, �˸�, or ������?
Also, is �� �� or ���� �� correct?
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As merely a beginner, I'm guessing the second example in each is correct.. I look forward to hearing the definitive answer from someone. |
Sorry mate, but the second example in each pair is correct.
A complete list? Hmmm, never seen one, nor have looked. However, I suggest that you do not look to Korean language learning texts (geared towards non-native Korean speakers), but rather elementary/middle school grammar (Korean) texts.
Shoosh,
Ryst |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Sorry Ryst, but Mithridates is correct in every example. The rule on -���ϴ� vs. -���ϴ� is pretty clear, -���ϴ� for verb stems that end in a consonant, -���ϴ� for verb stems that end in a vowel. There is no reason I am aware of why �ɴ� would be an exception to this. (Don't take this the wrong way, but I no longer even have any of the beginner's textbooks that I could quote to support me on this.)
�˴� + (��)�� = �˸�: �� irregular verbs, also known as ��-extending verbs follow this rule:
| Korean Grammar for International Learners by Yonsei Unviersity Press wrote: |
| Verb bases ending in consonants typically need the buffer vowel "��" when connecting with endings which begin with a consonant, but the �� of ��-irregular verbs does not need this buffer vowel. The �� drops in front of endings which begin with ��, ��, or ��. |
You should note, though, that ��~�� irregular verbs would still use the buffer vowel "��", and would retain the �� before all single-shape particles that begin with vowels. For example:
���� (to ask) + ���� (if) = ���� (if someone asks)
���� (to bite) + ���� (if) = ������ (if someone bites)
but:
���� (to ask) + ������ = �������� (someone (honored) asks)
���� (to bite) + ������ = ������ (someone (honored) bites)
In Tomato's final example, all �� irregular verbs/��-extending verbs add the ��/�� ending to the unextended base. For example:
��� ~ �� �� ���� (can't live)
(See Continuing Korean by Ross King and Jae Hoon Yeon, p. 66)
So yes, it would be �� ��.
Tomato, I hope this helps. I'm sorry, I don't know of a comprehensive list of irregular Korean verbs either.[/i] |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
You should note, though, that ��~�� irregular verbs would still use the buffer vowel "��", and would retain the �� before all single-shape particles that begin with vowels. For example:
���� (to ask) + ���� (if) = ���� (if someone asks)
���� (to bite) + ���� (if) = ������ (if someone bites)
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But ���� ("to ask") is itself an irregular verb, so it also is "������", not "����". |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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You're right, that was a typo. It's a pain typing Korean on my U.S. laptop.
It's:
���� (to ask) + ���� (if) = ������ (if someone asks)
���� (to bite) + ���� (if) = ���� (if someone bites) |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gotcha...you're absolutely right. There are a few verb pairs like that and I still screw up with them occasionally. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, Mashimaro, The Beaver, Mithridates, Ryst Helmut, Son Deureo, and Dogbert!
You not only provided the help which I badly needed, but disproved my stereotypes about people who post on this message board. |
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Ryst Helmut
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: In search of the elusive signature...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Ok, as usual, I didn't really read the post...nor paid attention to which was listed first, second, and what not...
Simplistic version: 앉습니다, 알면, and 알때 are correct.
No offense to not having a beginner's text anymore, as I've never owned one.
And know what, all that gobble-di-gook cut and pasted probably makes no sense to beginners..at least, it wouldn't have to me had I started learning Korean that way.
I suggest just spending time with Koreans who speak jack-all of English.
Thankfully, I started my classes at advanced levels....though I've no reason why X follows Y...it just 'sounds right'....l
Shoosh,
Ryst |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ryst Helmut, thank you for the suggestion, but I can't even stand to look at Koreans who speak to me in English, much less associate with them. |
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shawner88
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sure it's on this board somewhere, but how can I see the Korean and not gibberish? I'm using a Korean computer. |
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