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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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 Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| idonojacs wrote: |
| Why are we doing all this? |
First, this is a knee-jerk reaction to all the white trash that comes over to Korea to TEFL. The Korean Government finally decided to take action.
The action taken by the Korean Government was, admittedly, poorly planned and not enough time was given to foreign instructors and schools to plan and prepare to meet the new imigration requirements.
However, the Koreans aren't doing anything that the Canadian, American and Australian Governments don't do when people apply to work with children.
In Queensland, Australia, for example, one must apply for a "Blue Card" (police criminal records check) if they are interested in working with children from kindy right up to high school. This is standard. People who wish to work with children in Qld. are required to undergo a criminal history search / character references.
The fact that countries like Korea, Taiwan, China, Thailand, Japan DO NOT require any sort of crimiinal history check on foreign strangers working with their children is absolutely astounding!
And that's why Thailand, Taiwan and Korea are havens for pedophiles who are here ostensibly to teach EFL. |
The thing that I don't get about Korea is, why aren't KOREANS checked for doing creepy perv stuff before they work with children? Is it because this country has a piss poor rate of people coming forward to accuse others of abuse? It seems they would rather just hide such facts in order to save face.
In Canada EVERYONE who wants to work around children needs a CRC...I know Korea isn't close to being an industrialized nation, but since they put so much value on their children, you think they would open their eyes to the fact that, yes, Korean people have their fair share of pedophiles. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
[
The thing that I don't get about Korea is, why aren't KOREANS checked for doing creepy perv stuff before they work with children? . |
In public schools they are, same as foreign teachers.
In hakwons they aren't...again same as foreign teachers. With the new regulations coming in...it will be interesting to see if the hakwon Korean teachers fall under the same restrictions as the foreign hakwon teachers will from now on. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Why is it that he is referred to as Chistopher Paul Neil. Why not just call him Christopher Neil?
What makes this guy so special that we gotta waste an extra breath saying his middle name? |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Why is it that he is referred to as Chistopher Paul Neil. Why not just call him Christopher Neil?
What makes this guy so special that we gotta waste an extra breath saying his middle name? |
Same reason we say all 3 names of assassins, like Lee HARVEY Oswald.
I think the media just gets wood doing it  |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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If you read a newspaper, any newspaper, and look at the police blotter, or any story about an arrest, you will find the accused name on first reference stated with a middle name or initial, age, and some sort of address, usually a street and city. There may also be other identifying information, such as place of employment.
The need for a middle name or initial in such a situation is to prevent the public from possibly confusing the accused or convicted with another innocent person with the same name or a similar name. The age, etc., is important because it is not unusual for a person in the same family, or even same residence, to have the same name, such as a father or son.
If a paper published only the accused's first and last name without additional identifying information, a person with the same name could justifiably sue the paper for libel.
The extra information on first reference is also for the newspaper's internal use, to make sure information about that person or photos on file are not mixed up with another person with the same name. You do not want to run the wrong photo with the wrong person, such as Mayor Dorothy Jones with accused murderer Dorothy Jones.
Don't take my word for it. Try reading a newspaper. |
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Yesterday
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Land of the Morning DongChim (Kancho)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| idonojacs wrote: |
If you read a newspaper, any newspaper, and look at the police blotter, or any story about an arrest, you will find the accused name on first reference stated with a middle name or initial, age, and some sort of address, usually a street and city. There may also be other identifying information, such as place of employment.
The need for a middle name or initial in such a situation is to prevent the public from possibly confusing the accused or convicted with another innocent person with the same name or a similar name. The age, etc., is important because it is not unusual for a person in the same family, or even same residence, to have the same name, such as a father or son.
If a paper published only the accused's first and last name without additional identifying information, a person with the same name could justifiably sue the paper for libel.
The extra information on first reference is also for the newspaper's internal use, to make sure information about that person or photos on file are not mixed up with another person with the same name. You do not want to run the wrong photo with the wrong person, such as Mayor Dorothy Jones with accused murderer Dorothy Jones.
Don't take my word for it. Try reading a newspaper. |
Korean newspapers usually only say - Mr Kim or Mr Lee....
(Korean newspapers suck) - they are just protecting each other.... |
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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OK, my mistake.
I should have said Western newspaper.
But are you sure they only give the last name and nothing else when someone is accused of a crime? That's hard to believe. What use is that? There are probably at least 5 million Mr. Lees and 10 million Mr. Kims in Korea.
Even with a middle name, it is still hard to sort out here.
Just try googling Lee Dong-wook. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I worked with the guy at the Gwangju Foreign school, and have been trying to keep tabs on whats happening sort of. Apparently the Canadian government has only extradited one pedophile to date, and managed to get him a less harsher sentence than he would have gotten in the countrty in which the crime was committed.
In the case of CPN it's too high profile, and it's said that it would take a political manuver to get him extradited.
Google has a good profile on CPN |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the newspapers and media using First, Middle, and Last name. Why do we all have to use it?
We never say Neil Alden Armstrong went to the moon, or that Thomas Edward Brady, Jr. is the quarterback for the New England Patriots.
Heck, Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing and we don't use his full name.
I like the above poster's use of just the initials. |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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When they first caught the DC snipers, it was a little stressful because at first I heard only John Allen, the name of a local boy my sister had dated for a while.
After I heard John Allen Muhammad, it was only stressful because I like to sleep at I-95 rest areas.  |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Yesterday wrote: |
Korean newspapers usually only say - Mr Kim or Mr Lee ... |
Freaks me out a bit whenever I read an article about a perp named Yoo.
Yoo had a history of mental disorder ...
Yoo confessed to a string of murders ...
Yoo will begin serving a life sentence ... |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Len8:
Though dated, the article seems to answer many of the basic questions, although some of it is implied.
For example, he apparently was not wanted by police before he left Canada, so he would not have had a problem with a CRC. However, there may have been some past matters, non-sex related we do not know of.
He had a college diploma, so there would have been no need to forge documents.
There is no indication in the article that he abused children in Canada. Nor is there an indication that he abused children in Korea. In short, it seems he had the decency not to abuse children who were his own students.
What he did allegedly do is have sex with children in Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand during the past three years, and post pictures of himself doing this, with his face obscured.
How does this justify the extreme, hasty reaction by Korea against teachers here? That there are child abusers in the world, that some are Westerners going to Asian countries to have sex with children has been in the news for years.
When the Neil story hit the news, I told a co-teacher I felt bad about it, and that it made me feel disgusted just being associated in any way in people's minds with such a person.
She responded that I should not worry, that Koreans are reasonable people. That may be so, but the response of the Korean government has not been reasonable.
Perhaps Korean officials and media have underestimated their own citizens.
To make sure we don't lose the link to the article, here it is.
Note the first reference, in the second paragraph, with middle name and age. The place of residence is in the first graph, and the place of employment is later in the story.
| Quote: |
International Legal Tussle May Wait Alleged Pedophile
Darah Hansen
Vancouver Sun
Wednesday, October 17, 2007
VANCOUVER - Canada's sex-tourism law could face a major legal test if federal authorities try to bring home a Maple Ridge fugitive wanted for allegedly raping children in Asia.
Christopher Paul Neil, 32, is the subject of an international manhunt after Interpol released what appears to be a photo of Neil in connection with the rape of a dozen boys in Vietnam and Cambodia.
Neil, a private school teacher who once aspired to be a Catholic priest, is believed to be hiding out in Thailand since disappearing from his job at an English-language school in South Korea on Oct. 11. He was caught on camera the same day at Bangkok airport, arriving from Seoul.
Today, Thai authorities sought their own arrest warrant for Neil after a boy accused him of paying for oral sex. Immigration police at 54 Thai border posts were ordered to keep a close watch for Neil, and to scour tourist hangouts.
Should the hunt result in his arrest, Neil could become the first Canadian to test the muscle of Canadian sex tourism legislation, which makes it a criminal offence to exploit children abroad. To date, no Canadian has been extradited to Canada under the law.
"It's uncharted territory," said Supt. Earla-Kim McColl, head of the RCMP National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre in Toronto.
Benjamin Perrin, an assistant law professor at the University of B.C. who has worked in Cambodia with victims of child sex tourism, said Canada has a long way to go to convince foreign countries it means business when it comes to dealing with child sexual predators.
"We have only successfully convicted one person in 10 years ... so [foreign] governments may be reticent to turn this individual over to us for a long, protracted battle," he said. "We'll need to convince these governments whose citizens where allegedly harmed that we are serious about the prosecution and that we are going to put enough resources to ensure that justice is done."
To date, Vancouver resident Donald Bakker remains the only person convicted in Canada on charges of exploiting children abroad. He pleaded guilty in June 2005 and was sentenced to 10 years jail for sexually abusing children in Asia, and for abusing prostitutes in Canada.
Charges are still pending in the case of a second B.C. man, Kenneth Robert Klassen of Burnaby, who allegedly exploited children in Cambodia, Colombia and the Philippines.
Neither case involved extradition.
Perrin said Canada has no formal extradition treaties with Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand - the countries where Neil is alleged to have committed offences. He noted that each of those countries is legally entitled to prosecute individuals charged with crimes within their jurisdictions.
"So it could become a bit of a diplomatic issue if we wanted to extradite him," he said.
However, said Perrin, there are good reasons why Canada would want to make the effort - namely to ensure a fair trial, and that all of the charges, regardless of which country they were allegedly committed in, are dealt with together.
"Legal protections in the countries of Southeast Asia are not as favourable to the accused as they are in Canada," said Perrin. "I'm quite confident in saying that someone who is alleged to have committed sex crimes against children will face a harsher sentence in all likelihood in these countries, than they would in Canada."
Police officials in Canada have indicated in recent media reports that RCMP will be seeking Neil's extradition upon his arrest. But Perrin said it will likely become a case for politicians to handle.
"It will remain to be seen if Canada has an interest," he said. "Something like this is going to involve diplomatic pressure being applied and negotiation and all that."
Perrin said Neil would be better off surrendering himself to a Canadian embassy, making issues around extradition moot.
On Tuesday, Neil's younger brother urged his sibling to turn himself into authorities.
"I would like to say, `Chris, turn yourself in,'" Matthew Neil told reporters outside his home in Maple Ridge. "You know, get back into Canada. This is where you should be to answer these allegations."
Matthew Neil, 30, said he had not heard from is brother since he left Canada for Korea on Aug. 15. Interpol detectives have been trying to track down Neil since German police discovered photographs on the Internet three years ago showing a man raping 12 boys in Vietnam and Cambodia. The abuser's face was digitally disguised, but experts at Germany's BKA federal crime office managed to unscramble the image to reveal a Caucasian man with a receding hair line.
Interpol posted the cleaned-up photo of the suspect on its website last week, prompting more than 350 tips about the identity of the man. Neil, who had previously been known only by the code name "Vico," was identified by information from five sources on three different continents.
Until his certificate was suspended by provincial authorities Tuesday, Neil was able to work as a private school teacher in B.C. Education ministry officials confirmed he was employed earlier this year as a substitute teacher at a Catholic school in Port Coquitlam.
Neil's education history includes a four-year stint at the Christ the King Seminary in Mission, where he graduated in 1998 with an undergraduate arts degree, but failed to receive the necessary approval to go on to the priesthood.
He also served as a chaplain counselling teenagers at several military cadet camps in Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan during the summer months, from 1997 to 2000. A military spokesman said today no complaints have been reported regarding Neil's behaviour during his employment.
For the past several years, Neil has been teaching at English-language schools abroad, most recently at the Kwangju Foreign School in South Korea, where he taught English and social studies classes to Grade 7 and 8 students. Neil had been at the school for less than two months before his disappearance on Oct. 11.
The RCMP, now the lead police agency on the case, first became aware of the worldwide investigation, dubbed Operation Vico, in 2004. The following year its National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre joined other police agencies looking for the man who kept popping up on the Internet in a series of photographs that depicted abuse, but only last Wednesday did Canadian authorities learn he might be from Canada.
RCMP spokesman Staff Sgt. Rick Greenwood said the force has opened an active investigation since last Wednesday, when Interpol passed on the information gleaned from the hundreds of tips it received. |
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garykasparov
Joined: 27 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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There is only one solution for Christopher Paul Neil. Send him before a firing squad;
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idonojacs
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Len8:
| Quote: |
CPN was on an E7 visa, which is for people teaching at a regular school. E2 is for hogwon, and university teachers. He taught English and Social studies to middle school kids. His credentials were checked out by the school, but they didn't interview him. They offered him the job over the internet.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/17/world/main3377885.shtml . |
Here's the story cited:
| Quote: |
(AP) A suspected Canadian pedophile who has become the focus of a global manhunt was employed as a teacher by at least two international schools in Asia. He was well liked at one; tossed out by the other.
Nestled among small green hills, the Gwangju Foreign School occupies a two-building campus in a quiet neighborhood in Gwangju, a city of 1.4 million located 186 miles southwest of Seoul.
The institution's obscure existence ended late last week, when staff members, parents and students learned that a new teacher who suddenly disappeared was being sought by police worldwide.
Christopher Paul Neil, the 32-year-old Canadian who Interpol alleges abused young boys in Cambodia and Vietnam, is believed to be on the run after arriving in Thailand from South Korea last Thursday.
Police, acting on hundreds of tips from people who responded to an unprecedented appeal by Interpol for help in identifying Neil, are searching for him in Southeast Asia.
Former colleagues in South Korea said he arrived in August to teach at the school, but failed to show up for work last Thursday. They described him as outgoing, good at his job and popular with students.
Parents were both anxious and angry.
"My heart is still pounding," Moon Hyang-bun, who has two children at the school, said Wednesday about learning of the allegations.
"I didn't personally meet him but our kids liked him," Moon said outside the school. "He had a good reputation. He suddenly disappeared and our kids were perplexed and felt bad."
Myung Hyun-sook, head of administrative affairs, told reporters the school had no way of knowing about Neil's alleged abuses before he was hired on a one-year contract to teach eighth graders.
"We were looking for a teacher for English and social studies and he was the right person," she said.
Myung said she checked his diploma with the University of British Columbia, which faxed back his records. She said Neil taught at other schools in South Korea, but would not identify them.
She said the school, which has 100 students and 18 teachers, was contacting parents.
Founded in 1999, the school offers classes from preschool to 12th grade for students with international backgrounds, its Web site says. Being born outside South Korea is listed as an admission requirement.
"My husband is so upset he cannot believe how the school employed such a person," said Lee Young-ae, whose 7-year-old son attends the school.
Ray Fowler, a Canadian teacher at the school, said the suspicions about Neil came as a shock.
"We didn't know anything until the police showed up Friday evening," Fowler told The Associated Press in a telephone interview late Tuesday. "He was a very good teacher. Well organized, well prepared. His kids really liked him."
It was a different story in Thailand. Officials at Ramkhamhaeng Advent International School a Christian school in the outskirts of Bangkok said Neil taught there from August 2003 to January 2004.
"He didn't pass the probation," said Poramit Srikureja, an assistant chairman of the school.
Poramit said the school gave Neil verbal and written warnings about his teaching performance, in particular sloppy lesson plans and instances where he left students unsupervised in the classroom.
Rajdeep Takeuchi, who was the principal of the school during Neil's tenure, said he was an ineffectual teacher, but never caused any problems at the school.
"As far as I remember, he is quiet and keeps to himself. We monitor new comers closely but he never created any problem with the students," she said.
Both said there were no complaints of abuse by parents or students during the time he was at the school.
Poramit said it had been much easier for schools to recruit teachers before the high-profile case of John Mark Karr, who claimed he killed 6-year-old American beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey in 1996.
Karr was arrested in Bangkok last year and deported to the United States, where he was freed for lack of evidence. He had worked as an English teacher in Bangkok, South Korea and other places.
"It is very good now that we have the police help us screen teachers to make sure there is no previous record" of wrongdoing or criminal activities, Poramit said. "It is a lot more difficult now to get teachers." |
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