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Ut videam
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Pocheon-si, Gyeonggi-do
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 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Korea Times > Immigration Logic (Resp. to Lee Dong-wook) |
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From www.koreatimes.co.kr, posted 01-03-2008 17:31:
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Immigration Logic
by Sean Hayes
An article entitled "Misunderstanding of the New E-2 Visa'' appeared in The Korea Times on Dec. 27. An Immigration official, seemingly speaking for the Ministry of Justice, wrote the article.
He said that articles by "E-2 visa holding English teachers were shocking to my colleagues and myself who work in the Korea Immigration Service, the Ministry of Justice.''
The article notes that Mr. David Louis Quick, and others, made "incorrect claims'' in articles written and that "When one makes arguments, it is very easy for people to fall into the trap of emotional feelings and become very illogical, unless he is well trained in logical reasoning.''
The article continues, in this condescending tone, by stating that the author is "a member of the New York Bar'' and has "experience working at an American court.'' The New York Court Web site states that the author was sworn to the New York Bar in 2007.
The author who has come to a solution that I like to refer to as "Immigration Logic."
This Immigration Logic leads to a conclusion that the "New E-2 Visa,'' its not a new visa, doesn't require an FBI criminal record check but teachers "can use the following options'' ― contact a "local police station'' or a "privately-run criminal record check'' service, such as "www.criminalbackgroundrecords.com.''
If this is true, this regulation is another useless reactionary rule that directly stems from this "Immigration Logic.''
The first solution to contact the "local police station'' would still "tolerate sex offenders in the classroom.'' A local city police station can only provide criminal records for the state where the police station is located.
For example, in my home state of Connecticut, the state police and some local police departments may conduct a record check, but the report will only include information from Connecticut criminal history records.
A smarter than immigration "pedophile'' can simply request a record check from a town police department in a state where he has no criminal record and would then receive a clean "no record'' statement.
The second option of obtaining a criminal check from a commercial service contains the same "Immigration Logic.'' The service, the article mentioned, provides information on only 46 of the 50 states and only contains limited information for many of the 46 states.
For example, for Arkansas the service only provides information for those that are presently serving time, for California it only includes detailed information for certain counties, for Hawaii it only includes records for the past 12 years, for Pennsylvania it only includes information on those that are imprisoned or under Corrections supervision, and for Missouri, where the author went to law school, it only contains records since 1999.
We must realize that Korea is receiving a very bad name because of this "Immigration Logic.'' A logic that leads to a Q&A message board on Immigration's Web site that has unanswered questions for over 2 years; immigration officers with English ability that is worse than most kindergarten students that many of our E-2 visa holders teach; an immigration office in Seoul that, until recently, was housed in the same building as a parole office; a Web site that has incorrect and incomplete information; holding cells that contributed to the deaths of 11 foreigners in the Yeosu Detention Center; immigration laws that are arbitrarily and inconsistently enforced; immigration officials that treat foreigners in a condescending and sometimes inhuman manner and numerous constitutional and human rights violations that have been perpetrated in the name of this Immigration Logic.
In the words of President-elect Lee "All sides and corners of this country must now elevate to a more mature level. We must do away with the old, and create the new to step toward the future and the world.''
Hopefully, the reform-minded President-elect Lee, with the assistance of the Human Rights Commission, will force Immigration to mature and finally turn the prodigal son of the Ministry of Justice down the right path.
American attorney Sean Hayes is a law professor at Kookmin University and researcher for the Constitutional Court. He is pursuing a doctorate in law at Seoul National University. He can be reached at [email protected] and www.ahnse.blogspot.com.
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http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2008/01/137_16652.html
Last edited by Ut videam on Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:53 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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PGF
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice. |
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the dakota kid
Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Location: Not in Seoul...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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hmm, his blog is 404 not available right now...
Sudden death due to traffic?
tdk
Thanks Ut Videam, it works now!
Last edited by the dakota kid on Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ut videam
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Pocheon-si, Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Try it now. phpBB didn't parse the URL correctly in the OP, but I just went back and fixed it. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Why the hell did the author not call out Mr. Lee on this blatant false information about the US embassy providing help with background checks?
And another point that many people seem to be missing: If you have committed a felony in the USA, for example, molesting a child, you don't get to leave the USA! No passport will be issued for a convicted felon except in rare cases which take a long time and are on a case-by-case basis.
So Korea will be keeping out people with misdemeanors, the lowest forms of crime, which are often "innocently" obtained (protesting, loosing control of your vehicle, etc.). |
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Ut videam
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Pocheon-si, Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| Why the hell did the author not call out Mr. Lee on this blatant false information about the US embassy providing help with background checks? |
Because what he said in the article is true. The embassy will not notarize the background checks, but they WILL notarize a self-declaratory statement (affidavit) that you make before a consular officer attesting to the authenticity of the background check. See http://seoul.usembassy.gov/notarial_services.html.
| Quote: |
And another point that many people seem to be missing: If you have committed a felony in the USA, for example, molesting a child, you don't get to leave the USA! No passport will be issued for a convicted felon except in rare cases which take a long time and are on a case-by-case basis.
So Korea will be keeping out people with misdemeanors, the lowest forms of crime, which are often "innocently" obtained (protesting, loosing control of your vehicle, etc.). |
Excellent point... except it's not correct. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=227365
Last edited by Ut videam on Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ut videam wrote: |
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| Why the hell did the author not call out Mr. Lee on this blatant false information about the US embassy providing help with background checks? |
Because what he said in the article is true. The embassy will not notarize the background checks, but they WILL notarize a self-declaratory statement (affidavit) that you make before a consular officer attesting to the authenticity of the background check. See http://seoul.usembassy.gov/notarial_services.html.
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On second look, you are correct. From Mr. Lee's article, he did say they will notarize. I was a bit confused by this point he made:
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| To take a few examples, we are maintaining very close contact with seven embassies _ the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa ― from countries whose citizens qualify for the E2 visa. |
I was confused because the Korean immigration posted, not in Mr. Lee's article, that the US embassy would help obtain CBCs. This fact was refuted by the US embassy on their website and in the monthly embassy update email. It showed that immigration either was not working closely with the US embassy, or at least not listening enough to the US embassy. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I had to "stop" reading halfway due "to the excessive" and brain-hurting "use" of "quotation marks".  |
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PGF
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Guess what?!
Mr. Lee is trying to get an account here so he can reply!
Stay tuned, this might get interesting. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Right with you Hanson...reading the article made me feel like I was watching Quotation Man played by Chris Farley on Sat. Live... 
Good points made however..as there were good points in the Lee article. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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While I don't know the good points of the Lee article, I did find the Hayes letter interesting, especially for what it did not say, for example, the new law is il-founded.
Instead, he looked at the logic of Lee's writing and found many problems with it, my guess, like the Law Professor that Hayes is.
He concentrated on the advice Lee gave on how to get a CBC in the U.S. and debunked all his advice as not leeding to the premise the law set out which is to stop sexual predators from teaching in Korean schools.
He also insinuated that this lack of logical thinking is a systematic problem at Immigration and that this is something that definately needs to be changed.
I would love to see a debate between the two but I guess that would never happen. |
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gmat
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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The Hayes article was painful to read. Hard to believe he is a post-grad student at SNU and a law prof.
He could use this |
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Ut videam
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Pocheon-si, Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| gmat wrote: |
The Hayes article was painful to read. Hard to believe he is a post-grad student at SNU and a law prof.
He could use this |
I'm not sure I'd blame it all on him. The paragraph divisions are almost certainly the KT editor's fault, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that other infelicitous changes were made as well. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ut videam wrote: |
| gmat wrote: |
The Hayes article was painful to read. Hard to believe he is a post-grad student at SNU and a law prof.
He could use this |
I'm not sure I'd blame it all on him. The paragraph divisions are almost certainly the KT editor's fault, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that other infelicitous changes were made as well. |
Yes, it is obvious that there are a few grammatical errors in the article. However, from experience I can say that the Korea Times editorial dept. does play a role in fixing something they "think" is wrong. And yes, they do break up the paragraphs when they shouldn't be in the first place. |
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