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kingpin
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| kingpin wrote: |
So if he dismantles the IRS, who's going to collect the taxes under his new system?
Just asking. |
Apparently he suggests a 'consumption tax' which will take place of an 'income tax'.
What he means exactly by 'consumption tax' is a mystery. Does that mean buying a house will include enormous taxes included? Who knows?
Most important, would he have any support whatsoever in DC to make that happen even if that really was a keystone part of his campaign. Plus is it a keystone? He discussed it briefly on Leno, so it must be something important to him. |
He can call it whatever he pleases, but I want to know who's going to be in charge of collecting it and ensuring that it is being paid as required? Is Huckabee himself going to go store-to-store checking the books? He also claims that low-income citizens would get a refund (rebate, prebate, I can't remember) of sorts to counter the charges that the tax is regressive. So, um, who's going to issue those checks? The IRS won't be there to do it.
On an larger issue, the US is a consumption-driven economy, which means that higher taxes simply discourage a primary economic engine. You think consumer confidence is low now, just wait until you have to add 23% to the price of that new house you want to buy. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kingpin wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| kingpin wrote: |
So if he dismantles the IRS, who's going to collect the taxes under his new system?
Just asking. |
Apparently he suggests a 'consumption tax' which will take place of an 'income tax'.
What he means exactly by 'consumption tax' is a mystery. Does that mean buying a house will include enormous taxes included? Who knows?
Most important, would he have any support whatsoever in DC to make that happen even if that really was a keystone part of his campaign. Plus is it a keystone? He discussed it briefly on Leno, so it must be something important to him. |
He can call it whatever he pleases, but I want to know who's going to be in charge of collecting it and ensuring that it is being paid as required? Is Huckabee himself going to go store-to-store checking the books? He also claims that low-income citizens would get a refund (rebate, prebate, I can't remember) of sorts to counter the charges that the tax is regressive. So, um, who's going to issue those checks? The IRS won't be there to do it.
On an larger issue, the US is a consumption-driven economy, which means that higher taxes simply discourage a primary economic engine. You think consumer confidence is low now, just wait until you have to add 23% to the price of that new house you want to buy. |
Who is in charge of collecting and insuring that state and local sales taxes are paid now?
At the risk of sounding like I'm a Huckabee fan, I really like his ideas on taxes. I don't think its possible to completely shut down the IRS, but if you are saying the IRS, as it stands now, is not a bloated, ineffective institution that has outlived its usefulness, then you are a fool.
The main thing I like about consumption taxes is that a person is not penalized for making more money but rather that person can adjust their own tax rate by the amount of money they spend. If you think government is better equipped to tell you what to do with YOUR money than you are, then you are probably employed by the IRS.
I believe a consumption tax is the most fair of taxes. Now, illegal workers, many of whom are paid in cash, don't pay much income tax . Under a consumption tax, they would finally be paying their fair share with the rest of us. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Who is in charge of collecting and insuring that state and local sales taxes are paid now? |
State govt auditing and enforcement agencies...? One cannot collect taxes without tax collectors, Huckabee and his supporters' nonsense notwithstanding. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| Who is in charge of collecting and insuring that state and local sales taxes are paid now? |
State govt auditing and enforcement agencies...? One cannot collect taxes without tax collectors, Huckabee and his supporters' nonsense notwithstanding. |
You really don't think states send people to walk into each business and collect a bag of money from each to cover sales taxes....  Do you?
The states audit and each business sends its sales tax receipts in. There wouldn't be the millions of individual tax returns that need to be read by worthless IRS employees. It seems rather simple to me that a consumption tax would drastically reduce the amount of IRS personnel needed...which is better for everyone. Unless, of course, you like a big, bloated government. |
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kingpin
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| kingpin wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| kingpin wrote: |
So if he dismantles the IRS, who's going to collect the taxes under his new system?
Just asking. |
Apparently he suggests a 'consumption tax' which will take place of an 'income tax'.
What he means exactly by 'consumption tax' is a mystery. Does that mean buying a house will include enormous taxes included? Who knows?
Most important, would he have any support whatsoever in DC to make that happen even if that really was a keystone part of his campaign. Plus is it a keystone? He discussed it briefly on Leno, so it must be something important to him. |
He can call it whatever he pleases, but I want to know who's going to be in charge of collecting it and ensuring that it is being paid as required? Is Huckabee himself going to go store-to-store checking the books? He also claims that low-income citizens would get a refund (rebate, prebate, I can't remember) of sorts to counter the charges that the tax is regressive. So, um, who's going to issue those checks? The IRS won't be there to do it.
On an larger issue, the US is a consumption-driven economy, which means that higher taxes simply discourage a primary economic engine. You think consumer confidence is low now, just wait until you have to add 23% to the price of that new house you want to buy. |
Who is in charge of collecting and insuring that state and local sales taxes are paid now?
At the risk of sounding like I'm a Huckabee fan, I really like his ideas on taxes. I don't think its possible to completely shut down the IRS, but if you are saying the IRS, as it stands now, is not a bloated, ineffective institution that has outlived its usefulness, then you are a fool.
The main thing I like about consumption taxes is that a person is not penalized for making more money but rather that person can adjust their own tax rate by the amount of money they spend. If you think government is better equipped to tell you what to do with YOUR money than you are, then you are probably employed by the IRS.
I believe a consumption tax is the most fair of taxes. Now, illegal workers, many of whom are paid in cash, don't pay much income tax . Under a consumption tax, they would finally be paying their fair share with the rest of us. |
Just about every US federal government agency has become bloated and ineffectual, so on that count I hope I can pass your "fool" test. As for Huckabee's policies, I don't mean to attack them here as much as I just want to understand how they work.
We're talking federal taxes here, so would Huckabee's plans change the way state/local taxes are collected? Like you said, the IRS probably can't be dismantled completely but since Huckabee's promising to eliminate the agency outright I'd say we should evaluate his proposal in that light.
My other question concerns revenue. What are the projected revenues from a national sales tax as compared to the current tax structure (realizing, of course, that the current tax structure encourages avoidance)? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I am not enamored of bureaucracy and I feel no friendship towards the IRS. I just do not believe that people will respect laws without enforcement. Some people, yes, many others, no.
I know very well that Nevada Gaming Commission -- auditing and enforcement divisions -- puts the fear of God into casino operators every single day, for example. Unannounced inspections in force of count rooms and covert observations of procedures from surveillance, etc. |
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zai
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: |
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It's interesting how ever since Huckabee has been talking more about the Fairtax proposal that Ron Paul is asked less about his ideas of getting rid of the IRS.
It seemed that everyone used to ask Ron Paul in disbelief of getting rid of the IRS, but now that Huckabee has been talking about it there seems to be interest. I'm glad to see that the issue of the IRS and federal income tax is being discussed more in the public now.
Kudos to Huckabee for talking about an alternative.
Too bad he wants to separate people with AIDs from the general population (if that is really what he said). |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| He would be much better off to propose a flat tax. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| zai wrote: |
| Too bad he wants to separate people with AIDs from the general population (if that is really what he said). |
He did say it in 1992.
Actually he said "we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague" to which he now denies those words were a call to quarantine the AIDS population. He never explained what he did mean if it wasn't quarantining them though.
Now he says there is so much more research on it, etc. In other words, sounds like he's not so interested in that position, as more of an uniformed statement he made 15 years back. |
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